Game Mod Discussion at Carl's Sims 3 Forum

[Hosfac]

But isn't this like telling people it's ok to use them?

No.  Much like using cheat codes, using mods lies strictly with what each player wants for the game.  However, from my part, this is about responsibility.

I have, for a long time, felt that this rule sent a completely unintended message.  The mere existence of this rule has lead to an urban myth that all mods are inherently evil and that using a mod is something to be embarrassed about.  It's an unfortunate conclusion to come to, and couldn't be farther from the one we were trying to convey.

It's intent was to protect our younger users from mods that allowed a players game to do things that their parents might not appreciate.  That part is not going to change:  mods designed to break the Teen rating of the game are still 100% off limits here.  It was also designed to protect our users from low quality mods that could break your game.

However, a zero-tolerance policy on the discussion of mods was not helping us to protect anyone.  There are people who are going to use mods, and after finding no information on them on the most helpful Sims 3 site on the internet, these people are forced to strike out on their own and look themselves.  They have been forced to download mods based solely on the information provided by the creators, and run a greater risk of getting a mod that not only doesn't do what they'd hoped it would, but get one that breaks their game.  We have protected no one, and callously sent people off to fend for themselves.  This is not us being responsible.

Because there are good mods out there.  There are mods that actually fix EA bugs, and fix them faster and a lot sooner than EA is often inclined to do, making this game playable for some people who are more prone to frustration.  There are mods that add new playability to the game for people who have become bored with it.  This is a benefit to everyone here, even if you don't use mods, because a lot of the people who use mods wouldn't be playing this game right now if someone wasn't working to make it better.  And if people had started to put this game down because of these reasons, who's to say that EA would even still be making expansions for it?

Mods always have been and always will be a personal choice.  It's like using cheat codes:  some people use them as a rule, some people don't use them at all.  This changes nothing, except for the fact that now the people who do use them will have some idea where to go to get mods that will do what they want without doing things that they don't.

[Frey]

I think this change is actually perfect. I currently use no mods, but I used them a lot with Sims 2. I stopped using them because I actually had a bad experience with one of them, but I also had very good experience with other mods that never caused me any trouble. As Carl and others already said, using mods is all about doing your homework: backing everything up, educating yourself properly about the mod and its risks, and about which mods are good or bad.
I've always thought that the no-mods rule was actually kind of a problem, because I really trust people around here and there have been times when I just wanted to ask a trust-worthy person about a mod and inform myself about it. I'm not saying we should allow mods discussion everywhere here, because as I said I respect people who don't want to know anything about them, but having a separate board will help everybody who actually is interested in them without necessarily bothering people who aren't.

So, thanks Carl and the mods for re-thinking all of this  .

[KrispyNickyB]

I personally use mods. I also have broken, hurt, crashed, you name it to my game because of them. I still use them at times. Currently, I am not using one because of my dynasty attempt. I think having a place that is respected and knowledgeable to discuss them is great. Trust me when I had issues I wish I had the great people here to help me. I'm a IT by both major and profession. I would love to share my limited knowledge to anyone that it would help.

With this said, I know some people are very anti-mod and love the rule. I think as a place to discuss for information would be great. I have one tweak I wanted to share with storytellers a long time ago but couldn't. It doesn't mean we will rampantly discuss it in every post. I do agree it needs to be monitored.

Breaking the teen rating is completely wrong. However, an override that centers the portraits when they are painted? Now that kind of thing is okay I think. I'd love to be able to give credit for little stuff like that. That is my humble opinion though.

[Shillianth]

I think being able to discuss and point others in the direction of mods is a good thing. Trying to deny their existence felt kind of silly to me. If someone is / was experiencing an issue and there is a mod out there that fixes it then why not allow people to discuss them? I think as long as it stays a discussion about mods rather than advertising for, posting or hosting of mods then it shouldn't be an issue. Don't want them? Don't look. 

I've used no mods and had my game break / corrupt, I've also used loads and had my game break / corrupt. I'm now of the mind set that if there is a problem (or something I want different) to happen in game I'll weigh up whether its worth risking losing everything again or if it'll address the problem. I stick to a few modders that I know and trust Twallan being one of them.

[Teresa]

I am glad to see this change.  To be honest I am not aware of any game that does not allow, if not encourage, some degree of modding.  It is up to the consumer (that is us) to do our research about which mods are good and which ones are poorly made.  It is helpful to have a place where questions can be asked and answered to steer people to safe places to download - friends don't let friends download bad mods...

I have been using Twallan's mods since before they were Twallan's mods, and I used Pescado's mods back in Sims 2.  In fact the only time I play an unmodded game is when I play a challenge or the dynasty/decadynasty from here. 

However, personally, none of the mods I use are adult rated nor are they cheating mods.  I use strictly background mods to clean up some of the brokenness EA calls playable bugs.  I trust Twallan's mods - either they work or he fixes them - and he keeps them updated so they always work on the most current patch level.  And I haven't ever had a mod glitch a game so badly that just removing the mod didn't fix things.

Having said that about mods, I am one that doesn't like to use custom content, although I own just about everything in the store; which actually causes me more trouble than any mod I have ever used, even the ones I tested that didn't work or caused bad things in my game.  I like knowing where I can download CC-free items and I like knowing the download doesn't include trojans (not just viruses, but also unwanted CC/mods).

I think there needs to be a moderator, and someone else over 18 (it doesn't have to be a mod, but it should be someone, who knows the different third party/mod websites), and Twallan too, to approve the mods being shared to make sure they don't have anything over the T for Teen rating, and that the website is safe.

I agree that there needs to be a moderator that is familiar with the mods in case there are any questions about appropriateness.  I don't know that a new moderator is needed, just one/more of the existing moderators to know more about them

No.  Much like using cheat codes, using mods lies strictly with what each player wants for the game.  However, from my part, this is about responsibility.

Mods always have been and always will be a personal choice.  It's like using cheat codes:  some people use them as a rule, some people don't use them at all.  This changes nothing, except for the fact that now the people who do use them will have some idea where to go to get mods that will do what they want without doing things that they don't.

Wow, 9 new replies while I have been typing up mine.  This sums up my feelings exactly.

[Hosfac]

After a PM from a moderator that this sort of discussion wasn't allowed, using mods was the one thing I was always kind of embarrassed about when I found out the rule.

I meant to respond to this in particular, but forgot to:

You are not alone.  I've used mods for quite a long while.  I didn't when I started as a moderator, but sometime after that I discovered Nraas Industries.  I used to pick their brains to figure out certain things about how the game worked.  After a while, I started reading about what their mods did and what they were doing in people's games (the good and bad).  One thing that really struck me was how Twallan personally did his best to make sure that his mods worked the way they were supposed to in every user's game.  I figured "well, if he spends this much time getting them to work right, maybe his are better than most."

I currently use 3 of his mods all the time, and I probably wouldn't be playing Sims 3 right now if it wasn't for him.

[Carl]

I currently use 3 of his mods all the time, and I probably wouldn't be playing Sims 3 right now if it wasn't for him.

I can attest to this. He installed a few, and started telling me how great they are. He was using Twallan's Woohooer that turns woohoo into a skill, and I think another mod involving vampire factions. I was really impressed by the idea, and that there could be more mods that added new skills. It seems the mods plus a new expansion gave the game a new life for him. He's totally back into it and sharing his experience with me from time to time. For a while nothing could pull us away from Rift, now I'm pulling him away from Sims!

 I'm looking forward to seeing all the stuff people share, so I don't have to browse all over the web to find the really cool stuff.

[Figwit]

I am so pleased that you have raised this discussion, Carl.  My heart has gone out to so many people here who have such a horrible time with their game when the answer was at my finger tips but I couldn't speak about it or point them in the right direction. 

I have used mods in my game since they were first made available and I have used Twallan's since he published his first mod - and a beauty it was too.     I have never had a problem caused by a mod - ever.  I did cut my teeth on them in Sims 2 so learned the hard way there not to pile in everything together.  I am careful with what I use and I don't overload my game with mods.  I ensure that I understand what each one can do and only use the ones that I find essential to my own game style.  I am zealous about keeping them updated for each patch too.  I have slipped a few times but the worst that has happened is my save wouldn't load.  It did once I realised I had an outdated mod.  I don't use them specifically to make my game easier but to stomp on the bugs and cut down on the EA silliness.

CC is a different story and I am not such in favour of it though I believe it can enhance the game and make the sims prettier.  I keep mine to what is essential for me and I try not to get tempted by the pretty hair and objects.   Too much can certainly slow down your game and there are some bad bits out there.

Teen rating?  I think EA are a bit over zealous.  They allow woohoo but we can't see a sim use the toilet when he is completely dressed.  The mosaic is the first to go in my game.  That said, there are some weird people out there with nasty tastes and I wouldn't like that sort of thing to be linked here.

Thank you for reconsidering your stance. 

One more thing, I have installed my game exactly twice - once on my PC and once on my Mac and I have had very few issues with it.  This, I believe, is because my game is kept operating sensibly by Twallan's mods.

[KrispyNickyB]

I too will vouch for Twallan's mods. I used his Story Progression for a long time. He is one of the best modder's out there. Without the added dimension his Story Progression gave, my Millham's wouldn't exist the way they do now.

I will be honest, and say the no-mod talk is one thing that turned me off about this place. I do love this forum. However, I felt I was always being dishonest in my stories. I also felt bad for using them when they fixed a glitch or bug and I couldn't share it. I didn't want to join other places. I like it here, and the people. I never wanted to leave, but struggled with my playing style vs. the rules.

[Serena Darrin]

Oh wow.  I was surprised to see this, but I'm glad of it.

I use mods; and it always made my (unoffical) Dynasty attempts awkward to post, because I'd get a question of 'how'd you do that?'  And I couldn't really discuss it.

However, personally, none of the mods I use are adult rated nor are they cheating mods.  I use strictly background mods to clean up some of the brokenness EA calls playable bugs.  I trust Twallan's mods - either they work or he fixes them - and he keeps them updated so they always work on the most current patch level.  And I haven't ever had a mod glitch a game so badly that just removing the mod didn't fix things.

This.   Almost all my mods are EA Bug-fixes; with a few things that tweak the game to make more sense for the story I want to tell.  (For example, I don't use EA's story mode.  I have one mod that I won't name that probably does break the teen rating, but it's configurable, so I turned a lot of features off.  I just wanted the bug-fixing, and didn't care about the rest.)

I'm actually happier though, because there have been times here when I've wanted to put up a link to ModTheSims building resources (how to build split-levels using building cheats, stuff like that), as a resource for this community; and haven't been able to because we couldn't link to modding sites.   Some of the modding sites are often also a community resource for patching, fixing game problems, and other things that aren't necessarily directly related to CC or Mods; and often have information surrounding known game bugs, problems, and information on patching/uninstalling. 

Now, we as a community here can link to off-site tutorials and resources (obviously, keeping them at the teen rating.  That, to me, just goes without saying); and help out other community members.  This seems like a good thing.  And if someone's not comfortable going to, to give an example, the ModTheSims site, then that's ok too, because they'll be aware it's an off-site link.

I understand if people don't want to use mods, when I first came to Sims 2, it took me forever to work up the courage to use even CC.  And I've had a few bad experiences with Mods and Mod sites, so there is a concern, one I totally understand.   But just because part of the community is . . . well, to put it in polite company, stupid, doesn't mean all of the community is. 

I've done a lot of research over the years to figure out what mod sites are safe and what are not; and what downloads are safe, and I'd be really glad to be able to share my research with this community. 

Wow, this is a fast-moving topic!

I currently use 3 of his mods all the time, and I probably wouldn't be playing Sims 3 right now if it wasn't for him.

Same here.  His mods are what rescued a bugged dynasty attempt for me.

[jeanamariex3]

I like knowing where I can download CC-free items and I like knowing the download doesn't include trojans (not just viruses, but also unwanted CC/mods).

I don't believe this discussion will automatically allow CC in the Swap Shop. I like how the Swap Shop is CC free. As Carl said, Mod discussions will not automatically mean we have frivolous beauty polls and contests like "Vote for the next Legacy Heir/Dynasty Founder" with pretty creepy Sims that have realistic features.

I was always a Master Controller and Story Progression user myself. They just made my game so much cleaner, and I was sad to let them go. Twallan is a lifesaver for sure!

[whtrbt]

I am glad that you have made this change.  I personally use several of Twallan mods and I love them.  In fact, I would have given up entirely on the game if it were not for them because frankly the game would have been unplayable.  My Bridgeport game spawn over 60 cars a night.  I have had to use mod to work my way of of glitches that would have otherwise destroyed my sims families.  I would have had family trees ruined. 

CC is another story.  I don't see the need and am not interested.  There is plenty of content between the Eps and the store to keep me satisfied.  I am about playability.  I prefer the present over the gift wrapper.  That is why I use mods.

[Frey]

Having said that about mods, I am one that doesn't like to use custom content, although I own just about everything in the store; which actually causes me more trouble than any mod I have ever used, even the ones I tested that didn't work or caused bad things in my game.  I like knowing where I can download CC-free items and I like knowing the download doesn't include trojans (not just viruses, but also unwanted CC/mods).

I have to say I totally agree with this. Even though I've had bad experiences with mods, most of my troubles with the game have been either because of bad/too much CC or on EA's account (that is, ugly bugs like the blue screen of death).  Actually I stopped using CC just because my game would become so unplayable that it wasn't worth it. Now I actually only use the free stuff from the store and some patterns made by myself, but very few.  Mods on the other hand, I would definitely be using some (mainly for game stabilty) if I had someone to ask about them who I trusted. So, again, yay for this new rule  .

[grimsoul]

I don't have a problem with this idea. It will be nice to get information from people I trust instead of some random sight I google for info.
I'm a fan of Twallan and use some of his mods to help with some problems I have with the game. Like the townies inventories filling up with cars and slowing my game down.

[jeanamariex3]

I will be honest, and say the no-mod talk is one thing that turned me off about this place. I do love this forum. However, I felt I was always being dishonest in my stories. I also felt bad for using them when they fixed a glitch or bug and I couldn't share it. I didn't want to join other places. I like it here, and the people. I never wanted to leave, but struggled with my playing style vs. the rules.

That's exactly how I felt! In fact, remember the thread where I resurrected Glint 2.0? I used Master Controller to get the skills up, but I could never fully admit to it, because of the rules. I don't want to call out on anyone at all, but a few stories, I notice the user used mods, but I couldn't say anything or call anyone out on it, because I didn't want to be rude or get those people in trouble. I knew exactly what they were doing and always felt bad.

I think MC has cheating bits in the mod, but that and story progression are the two biggest mods I use.

So maybe there should also be some sort of warning about mods, and that they shouldn't be thrown in so casually.