Game Mod Discussion at Carl's Sims 3 Forum

[Seabody]

Just finished reading this thread from top-to-bottom.

I do have an account at ModTheSims though I only use it to ask questions about the running of the game that I can't ask here (My first, and only question to date is about a file from TS2 that enabled you to set preferences for games - like turning TestingCheats on at startup, or shortening the cheat "Motherlode" to "50k" - whether the same sort of file existed for TS3). I have looked at Mods, and CC, but never downloaded it.
I also have looked at NRaas Industries and have probably read all the pages there. I have my eye on two Mods for my Casual Game file (Overwatch and MasterController). I am looking forward to being able to ask here about Mods.
Someone once said something along the lines of "Pinstar is not Metro, and Metro is not Pinstar". I agree. Pinstar does allow Mods that do not give a significant advantage over a player that does not have the Mod. I can understand why Metro blanket bans any Mods. It's pretty simple to understand - I can't use MasterController's Cheat module because it would give me a significant advantage. I can't recall a specific function of the Cheat Module at present, but I can remember wanting it and knowing I could have it for all files except Dynasties and Challenges.
I think this is a great step for the forum. I have wanted to ask Mod question at some time or another, and I have this forum set as a homepage, so it's naturally my first stop.

[Seera1024]

Well I'd like to think that the people who have been using mods are also running clean games for the challenges. And not everyone that has come out and said they use mods are players in the challenges anyway. I said that I have used mods, which is true, but I have removed them for challenges.

I am also one who uses mods in normal play and non-Dynasty challenges but has a clean folder for my Dynasty challenges.


I can see both sides of the ban on mods for the Dynasty challenges. On one hand mods can fix otherwise Dynasty ending glitches or conditions or possibly even make the challenge harder. In which case those without mods have the advantage (because they don't have the glitch/condition or have it easier).

But on the other hand, what one person defines as an advantage can be different. And requiring all mods be okayed by Metro is just asking too much of him considering the following: there are a ton of mods out there right now, more will be made in the future, and existing mods will be updated to include new features.


The only easy solution is to ban all mods. Since glitches and game file ending conditions are not easily predictable and can happen to anyone, that's not a super huge advantage. And in most cases, those are fixable, even if it does take a little bit of work to do it.

[mumbiki]

Well I'd like to think that the people who have been using mods are also running clean games for the challenges. And not everyone that has come out and said they use mods are players in the challenges anyway. I said that I have used mods, which is true, but I have removed them for challenges.

 I did not mean to imply "everyone" who said they use mods also plays challenges.  I was just shocked to find out ANYONE would do it in that regard.  I play challenges all the time just to do them, as opposed to the posting results on here.  So whether or not someone uses a mod doesn't affect me in the least.  I just was giving you an outsider's viewpoint of what vibe it gives off.   

[Esther1981]

I know you didn't mean it that way, at all. I do have to say this though, you've been taking a huge risk while playing Sims 3 all along. Playing Sims 3+EP's+SP's+Store Content with a graphics chip is very risky. Graphics chips do not have the amount of memory required to play TS3, let alone pets, so it will have a hard time properly rendering something so detailed.

While you were (understandably) worrying about mods and how risky they are for your game, you've been dangerously playing Sims 3 all along, as was I, until a few days before Christmas.

I'm glad I didn't come off that way. The last thing I've ever wanted to do is make someone ashamed of using mods.

I didn't know at first my graphic card was bad, but I'll admit ever since Pets came out, I've known yet kept playing. I asked my friend for help, gave him money and he said he'd get me one. That was back in November, he gave me one, I did the smart thing and asked Carl about it, was told it wasn't compatible, told him I wanted my money back, was told he'd get me another one that would work, and still haven't seen it.

So last month I believe, I asked Carl for help, he sent me a link to a card that would work with my computer and the game, then I was going to get it this month but my power supply and cooling fan went out so that ended up coming first. My friend also told me last week he got the new one, and it would probably be here Tuesday. Hm 2 days and still haven't seen it.  I told him flat-out whatever he gave me, I was asking Carl before it was installed. So when my check comes in, I'm going to the link Carl gave me and getting my new card and hopefully all my problems with the game will magically disappear!! 

[Hosfac]

I have that same deal with my new graphics card. I'm hoping Error Trap and Overwatch will keep the Graphics Card in good shape.

A mod is not going to do anything to protect your graphics card.  All it could possibly do is prevent your hard drive from working harder than it needs to, and maybe not even that.  The only thing you can do to extend the life of your card is to perform physical maintenance on it regularly:  crack the case and remove the dust.  There is no substitute for this...no shortcuts.  You change the oil in your car regularly (at least I hope you do lol) so there's no reason not to do what you need to do to keep your PC healthy.

Likewise, neither yours or Esther's computer was in any more danger playing the Sims than it would be watching streaming video.  I have never heard, in my entire life, of software itself directly causing damage to computer components.  If someone blows their video card, it's because it was faulty or old.  Let's not start resorting to fear mongering.

There's been enough misinformation spread about mods (and I'm as guilty of it as anyone), but the solution to this is not to spread misinformation in the other direction.  The whole point is to get the factual information out in the open and let people decide for themselves.  And we can easily prevent this factual information without vilifying them and without deifying them.

Mods are not good.  Mods are not bad.  They are an option and nothing more.  And that's the way it needs to stay.

But on the other hand, what one person defines as an advantage can be different.

ad·van·tage  /ədˈvantij/:  Noun; A condition or circumstance that puts one in a favorable or superior position.

That is the English language definition.  No other definition matters.

A person using mods does not have to deal with bugs that a person not using them, for whatever reason, would have to deal with.  This would give the person using the mods a distinct, clear-cut advantage.  No amount of debate or creative wording will ever make this anything other than an undeniable fact.  There are no ambiguities.

But all of this is academic.  A ruling has already long since been made on this.  And that is, as they say, that.

I'm glad I didn't come off that way. The last thing I've ever wanted to do is make someone ashamed of using mods.

It wasn't you specifically.  It wasn't me specifically.  Nobody can be blamed specifically for this...although we've all done our part to create it.  It was the culture that we built that is fully responsible, and any of us are only responsible in that we helped create the culture.  But the fact of the matter is that we didn't create it with the intent of this outcome.  We did what we did with the best intentions, only things didn't turn out the way we expected them to...and we didn't even know how it turned out until a couple days ago.

Thus, we have nothing to feel particularly guilty for.  While what we did was not accidental, the actual product was an accident.

[Esther1981]

Likewise, neither yours or Esther's computer was in any more danger playing the Sims than it would be watching streaming video.  I have never heard, in my entire life, of software itself directly causing damage to computer components.  If someone blows their video card, it's because it was faulty or old.  Let's not start resorting to fear mongering.

Thus, we have nothing to feel particularly guilty for.  While what we did was not accidental, the actual product was an accident.

That is good to hear. I was afraid of frying my motherboard, because I was playing even though I know I have a bad graphics problem.

Ok! That works for me!

[Seera1024]

That is the English language definition.  No other definition matters.

A person using mods does not have to deal with bugs that a person not using them, for whatever reason, would have to deal with.  This would give the person using the mods a distinct, clear-cut advantage.  No amount of debate or creative wording will ever make this anything other than an undeniable fact.  There are no ambiguities.

Wasn't necessarily talking the strict definition of the word.

In Sims 2 I use a mod that allows for more than the max number of Sims. I use it even in my challenges. I don't view it as breaking the rules of having a mod in that gives me an advantage over those without it. Because even though I can have extra people in the house, it's balanced by me having a harder time managing everyone. Which means I could get hit with things like penalties from a social worker showing up or the repoman showing up because I forgot to pay the bills.

Nor would I call the mod that simply would prevent me from literally having to reinstall the game (there is a glitch in an unmodded game that makes you have to reinstall to fix; a factory reset won't fix it) an advantage. Just sanity saving because I own every EP and SP for Sims 2 and I have to go into safe mode to install the patches for the base game and earlier EP's. It takes the better part of a day to do this.


But yes, strictly speaking, any mod is advantageous. And yes, I'm aware the ruling has been made, but someone else had just made a comment that that ruling makes us seem elitist. So I put forth my view on the two sides and then said that I understood why the ruling was made the way it was. Because anything else would just open a can of worms.

[mumbiki]

But yes, strictly speaking, any mod is advantageous. And yes, I'm aware the ruling has been made, but someone else had just made a comment that that ruling makes us seem elitist.

Just to clarify Seera, the ruling (I assume you mean the ruling that Mods can't be discussed/used) is not what I thought seemed "elitist", it was the fact that mods were discouraged to an illogical point and then actually used by those who discouraged them.  That was what I was referring to.   

[Metropolis Man]

But yes, strictly speaking, any mod is advantageous. And yes, I'm aware the ruling has been made, but someone else had just made a comment that that ruling makes us seem elitist.

Elitist? Why? Simply because I am flat out banning them for challenges and Dynasties? No. For the 100th time, folks, I have NOTHING against mods. Period. But, they cannot be a part of that competitive aspect of this forum. Too many unknowns. Too many additional questions and administrative work. It keeps things level and simple. Do some players probably still use them for challenges and Dynasties? Of course. I was not born yesterday. But, the rule remains and we work on the honor system. So, please, there's no need for any more discussion about mod use in challenges or Dynasties. Thanks.

[mumbiki]

Elitist? Why? Simply because I am flat out banning them for challenges and Dynasties? No. For the 100th time, folks, I have NOTHING against mods. Period. But, they cannot be a part of that competitive aspect of this forum. Too many unknowns. Too many additional questions and administrative work. It keeps things level and simple. Do some players probably still use them for challenges and Dynasties? Of course. I was not born yesterday. But, the rule remains and we work on the honor system. So, please, there's no need for any more discussion about mod use in challenges or Dynasties. Thanks.

It's like my posts don't show up or something.  See my above reply.

[Metropolis Man]

It's like my posts don't show up or something.  See my above reply.

Okay, I misinterpreted your use of the term. Anyway, I was just throwing in my two cents on the whole discussion of mods in challenges/Dynasties which you touched on.

[jeanamariex3]

Likewise, neither yours or Esther's computer was in any more danger playing the Sims than it would be watching streaming video.  I have never heard, in my entire life, of software itself directly causing damage to computer components.  If someone blows their video card, it's because it was faulty or old.  Let's not start resorting to fear mongering.

I didn't say it was the software itself, it's the weak, old GPU trying to render that software. I said onboard graphics are not strong enough to handle the graphics for TS3, which is where the artifacts come in.

[Seera1024]

Just to clarify Seera, the ruling (I assume you mean the ruling that Mods can't be discussed/used) is not what I thought seemed "elitist", it was the fact that mods were discouraged to an illogical point and then actually used by those who discouraged them.  That was what I was referring to.

Ah, sorry about that.


And don't worry, Metro, I fully understand and support the ruling, I'm not trying to get the ruling reversed or anything like that.

[Trentorio]

So I finally got around to reading this thread and ended up skimming. I know everyone has important things to say and I have yet to read something that I think is unnecessary.

I use basic mods. If not for finding Twallan's stuff on my own doing loads of research some months ago, I would have stopped playing Sims 3.

I respected the forums rules, and never felt bad or like I was some sort of liar for using them and then joining this community. I simply would not talk about mods here. I didn't think something that automatically deleted the 80 million cars my town acquired in a 24hr sim period was a bad thing, but I wouldn't try and force that on someone else. People are capable of using search engines to find out information.

I also never thought anyone on this site or a moderator was a hypocrite for banning discussions of them. I thought it was a little extreme, but like everything else in the rules from forum rules to challenge/dynasty/legacy rules I understood their purpose. I never thought anyone here was an elitist or some sort of sims snob for not using them. (of which there are plenty out there!)  Any ego I have witnessed seems well deserved.  The people behind the scenes here work very hard on what is a hobby. A game.

I think a board for mod discussion is an excellent idea. People will use it, or they wont. Now they wont need to use a search engine, and if they do trust the word of the famous names that post here in regards to said mods, even better. I know I trust them.

This thread alone taught me something I did not know, and that was the game not capping fps and there being, out there, a fix for it.  No wonder my machine sounds like a jet taking off when I load my launcher.

That is all. Happy simming everyone.

Edit: The comment about the people here working hard on something that is essentially a hobby/game was not meant to be a slight. I meant that they work hard on something that is important to them and the people who play it and come here. They don't -have- to do this like a Doctor has to treat people or a phone operator has to be nice. That deserves a lot of respect.  A mod discussion forum is not going to bring about the Apocalypse

[bobbittx]

I have never heard, in my entire life, of software itself directly causing damage to computer components.  If someone blows their video card, it's because it was faulty or old.  Let's not start resorting to fear mongering.

People can burn out a video card if they don't know how to throttle back the settings. Some of the CC for new hair have very high polygon counts, 10-20mb files. So if you play with a large population the amount of extra stress on the gpu really starts to climb. That stress causes heat and will shorten the life of the card.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post though, because technically it is not the mod's fault, it is the fault of the person who installed it without understanding the impact it might have. And mods are not always performance hogs, many actually help people on lower end machines.

The only thing you can do to extend the life of your card is to perform physical maintenance on it regularly:  crack the case and remove the dust.  There is no substitute for this...no shortcuts.

I wish there was a way to cause that statement to pop up in every gaming forum where someone complains about lag or graphics tearing. I have friends that work with PCs everyday of their life that do not regularly clean the graphics card itself. They dust the case and the fans but skip the gpu. Dust builds up in the card which leads to more heat being trapped which leads to a dead card.