Can I get some help with some stair research/checking please

[Twinmum]

Can I get a few people to help me with a bit of checking please. I'm testing some strange behavior with stairs and I need to know if the results I am getting are the same for everyone or if they vary between computers.
Basically, stacked staircases do not work on every block and I am doing some testing to find the blocks that they do work on. The thing is, I don't want to compile a list and then find that it changes from computer to computer.
How can you help?
I need people to do a simple build on a few empty blocks. You can move a Sim in to build or build in Edit Town, but you will need to move a Sim in at some point to test things. The build has to take place on the block, please DON'T build a house and then just place a copy on empty blocks as this will alter the results.
What you need to build is very simple. A single room with a basement (you can build a foundation basement, but the basement tool is easier and faster). You need a set of straight stairs going down to the basement and then you need another set of stairs directly above the first stairs leading up to an upper level. You then need to get your Sim to go down into the basement and then back up to either the ground or upper level. If things work, your Sim will come up and step off the stairs. If things don't work, the Sim will come up the stairs but before they step off, they will turn around and go back down the stairs.
I already have a list of lots in Sunset Valley where the stairs will and will not work. What I'd like is for people to try this on a few lots (you can do other towns if you want) and let me know what lots you try and if the stairs work or not. Then I can compare the results with mine and make sure it's the same for everyone.

You can see in this pic how simple the build is.. nothing fancy

[Lilygirl]

Twinmum, I read on the internet somewhere (I'm bad a keeping references, sorry) that in order for stacked stairs to work (normal stairs not the spiral ones) they have to be oriented either North-South or East-West within the world. Again, sorry I can't remember which one. I'm curious to know if you built 2 stacked staircases on one lot, perpendicular to each other, if they would both work?

[MoonsAreBlue]

I have stacked staircases in my DecaDynasty family. They're on a foundation, so I lowered the terrain instead of using the basement tool. They go up and down both stairs just fine.

[Twinmum]

Twinmum, I read on the internet somewhere (I'm bad a keeping references, sorry) that in order for stacked stairs to work (normal stairs not the spiral ones) they have to be oriented either North-South or East-West within the world. Again, sorry I can't remember which one. I'm curious to know if you built 2 stacked staircases on one lot, perpendicular to each other, if they would both work?

Oh wow, thanks for that info Lilygirl. I've never heard that before. Guess I'll fire up the game (after my morning coffee that is ) and do some more testing. Yesterday I tested every empty lot in every world and was surprised at how few the stairs would actually work on. It's weird because I have made these stairs time and time again for myself. Must have been just sheer dumb luck that I either picked the right block or the right orientation for the stairs lol.
Watch this space for details!

[Twinmum]

Ha, figured it out.. Thanks Lilygirl.
It is dependent on the orientation of the lot. But I had wondered how because not all lots are at exact east west or north south orientation. What it goes by is when you first place a lot, the way the arrows point (on the green footprint grid of the block) is the way the stacked stairs will work.
Because of this, if you build two stacked staircases on the one lot (and I did try it), only the set that runs the same way as the arrows will work.
The good news is that when you share a house you build with stacked stairs they will work when imported into someones game (as long as they worked when you built them of course) because when you share a house, it grabs everything including the lot itself.

[Hosfac]

The good news is that when you share a house you build with stacked stairs they will work when imported into someones game (as long as they worked when you built them of course) because when you share a house, it grabs everything including the lot itself.

I wasn't even aware that this was even possible.  :O

So, technically, if you wanted a stacked staircase to go a different direction than what would be allowed, you could build the house at a different orientation (i.e. with the side that should be the street side not actually facing the street), export it/save it to the library, and drop the entire lot in at the proper orientation?

Some questions, though: 

How is the proper stair orientation actually determined?  Which green arrows are you referring to?  Are you talking about the arrows that show the staircase's footprint, or the lot itself (i.e. placing a new lot with World Editor)?

Does changing the "front of the lot" affect how a stacked staircase works?

[Twinmum]

Just writing up an addition for Carl to add to the stair tutorial. The arrows I'm referring to are the one when you place a lot.
Have a look at this pic. On the left you see the footprint of a lot. The arrows on this one are pointing front to back. Then on the right, you can see two stacked staircases built on that lot. The one pointing front to back will be fully usable, but the one going side to side will not be.

So, technically, if you wanted a stacked staircase to go a different direction than what would be allowed, you could build the house at a different orientation (i.e. with the side that should be the street side not actually facing the street), export it/save it to the library, and drop the entire lot in at the proper orientation?

If you build a house, the stairs have to be in the correct direction for that lot. So if they don't work in your original build they are not going to work ever! When you place a lot from the library and rotate it on a lot, it rotates the whole thing, including the original orientation of the grid. So if you want to build a house and you really want stacked stairs that go from side to side, then you need to start on a lot where the grid arrows go side to side.

[Hosfac]

Do you know how to determine the orientation of existing lots?  I don't like placing new lots because they don't have addresses lol.  I'm just weird like that. 

My idea was that if you wanted to build a house with a stacked staircase on a specific lot that had stairs that run contrary to the "grain" I guess you could say, that you could initially build it on that lot sideways (provided the lot was square), save it to your bin, bulldoze the old one and then drop it in the lot at the proper orientation.  Of course, I guess you could just drop a custom lot in a remote area with the footprint oriented in the way you wanted and build the house there before moving it...

And what exactly is the process for placing the staircases?  Bottom one first?

[Twinmum]

The only way I can find to determine the orientation of a lot is to go into world editor and actually grab the lot so the footprint is shown. There seems to be no other way to do it (that I can find). Of course, you could just build a test stack and see if it works.

As for building the stairs, it doesn't really matter which way you go. For the tutorial on the guide, I deleted the end piece of wall and the flooring under the stairs and built down. For these test I've been doing thes last few days, I've just built the lower stairs and just added enough wall to add the upper landing and then built down.

[PolarBair]

This is really interesting. The only time I've ever had stairs not work is when they went into a basement using the basement tool. Seemed the sims just would not go through ground level down into the basement.

So once I started creating basements by lowering the ground level of an area surrounded by foundation that was the end of my stacked stair troubles. Never payed any attention to orientation but they always worked as long as I didn't use the basement tool.

Now I'm wondering if this orientation thing might be the reason my sims wouldn't go into my basements created with the basement tool.

I've also notice that in build mode you can shift-click or control-click (don't remember which) on the edge of the lot to assign a new "Front of lot". This might be a way to change that footprint orientation you spoke of with out going into edit world mode.

[PolarBair]

Okay I just did a little testing with a basement created with the basement tool.

I found why I was having trouble with getting my sims to use the stairs into the basement and it had nothing to do with orientation. They work both ways. My problem was that I was connecting the stairs from the foundation level to the ground level directly to the stairs from ground level to the basement level with no landing between them.

Once I included a one square landing between them they worked fine both in line with front of lot and perpendicular to it.

Not sure where this Orientation problem comes into play as I have never had any other problem with sims using stairs.

[samoht04]

The Dynasty Lot in Hidden Springs is orientated so that a stacked stairs can work with the stairs facing to/away from the street. I've got stacked stairs in my Dynasty House there and they are fully usable.

Okay I just did a little testing with a basement created with the basement tool.

I found why I was having trouble with getting my sims to use the stairs into the basement and it had nothing to do with orientation. They work both ways. My problem was that I was connecting the stairs from the foundation level to the ground level directly to the stairs from ground level to the basement level with no landing between them.

Once I included a one square landing between them they worked fine both in line with front of lot and perpendicular to it.

Not sure where this Orientation problem comes into play as I have never had any other problem with sims using stairs.

I think you're doing it differently. Stacked Stairs don't involve the Foundation. It's just like in Twinmum's picture she showed above but ont he ground level with no foundation. If you have a Foundation between the ground and the stairs it will most likely always work. However the issue is when there is not a foundation separating them.

[PolarBair]

The Dynasty Lot in Hidden Springs is orientated so that a stacked stairs can work with the stairs facing to/away from the street. I've got stacked stairs in my Dynasty House there and they are fully usable.

I think you're doing it differently. Stacked Stairs don't involve the Foundation. It's just like in Twinmum's picture she showed above but ont he ground level with no foundation. If you have a Foundation between the ground and the stairs it will most likely always work. However the issue is when there is not a foundation separating them.

That's true. In my test today I didn't stack stairs but that is usually the case as I almost always include a basement and a second floor and so always have stacked stairs and I've just never had a problem with them. Stacked stairs does require at least 3 levels so I assumed the problem was with the lower set of stairs as that's the only time I've ever had any problems with stairs was going through a foundation.


P.S. hmmm, gonna try another quick test with no basement and just three above ground levels to try to reproduce this problem. Can't help but wonder why I've never run into it.

P.P.S.  Okay, I just put 3 levels on 415 Skyborough Blvd in Sunset Valley in a new game file (no basement or foundation) and stacked stairs worked oriented either way, parallel with front of lot and perpendicular. Unable to reproduce the problem.

[Twinmum]

P.P.S.  Okay, I just put 3 levels on 415 Skyborough Blvd in Sunset Valley in a new game file (no basement or foundation) and stacked stairs worked oriented either way, parallel with front of lot and perpendicular. Unable to reproduce the problem.

Are you testing the stairs fully? Is your Sim going up the lower stairs AND actually stepping off? I just built three levels on that same block and the stairs going from left to right do not work. The Sim can go down them with no trouble, but when it comes to going up, he will use them, but gets to the top and turns around. While that may look like they work, they do not.

[samoht04]

I will build stacked stairs facing the other way compared to my working stairs in my Dynasty and see if I encounter the problem as well or not. My house has no foundation, the stairs go up to the first floor bedrooms and under that the stairs go down to the basement, then under that set there is another set which go to the Museum. I have a triple stack, Lol.