Author Topic: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!  (Read 10388 times)

Offline SueDenim

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2022, 11:37:46 PM »
So if I understand this correctly -

1. The original prison lot must be less than 20K.  (it may be WAY less than 20K, but 20K is the absolute minimum)
1a. Do the original skilling objects come out of that original 20K?
1b. Assuming we manage to earn money, can we buy skilling books? Just the prisoners can't take them back to their cells?

2. Prison cells may be bigger than 2x3, but 2x3 is the minimum.

3. Theoretically, I'd never have to grow my prison.  I could just keep 1 prisoner all the time.  (Probably not the best strategy - but it could be done.)
3a. if I did just have the one prisoner, I could flip back and forth between 4 skills.  #1 could have skills A & B.  #2  needs to have something different (so C&D).  #3 can go back to A & B, etc.
3b. on the other side, for a "full" (7 person) prison, I need to have 16 skills in rotation. 

4. Prisoners are only allowed in the yard during the 2 hours?  Other than that, they're in the shower/recroom or workshop? Can they be in their cells outside of lockup?
4a. Can the workshop/kitchen be combined?
4b. Can we change the structure of the prison later on, if we have funds?  OR is adding cells/showers the only allowed change?

5. Can I be corrupt and just keep someone in prison if I feel the money they're generating is strategically worth more to me than the extra point I get for releasing them?

Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2022, 12:11:14 AM »
So if I understand this correctly -

1. The original prison lot must be less than 20K.  (it may be WAY less than 20K, but 20K is the absolute minimum)
1a. Do the original skilling objects come out of that original 20K?
1b. Assuming we manage to earn money, can we buy skilling books? Just the prisoners can't take them back to their cells?
1. Because your CAS warden will  probably start with $20k, you won't be able to build a starter prison for more than that.  Emphasis on "starter."
1a. I'm not sure what you mean by "original skilling objects." You don't have to buy all your skilling objects at once; you can buy them gradually as your prison funds grow.
1b. There's nothing in the rules prohibiting skill books. During lockup, however, the prisoners shouldn't be reading or otherwise skilling.

2. Prison cells may be bigger than 2x3, but 2x3 is the minimum.
Yes.

3. Theoretically, I'd never have to grow my prison.  I could just keep 1 prisoner all the time.  (Probably not the best strategy - but it could be done.)
3a. if I did just have the one prisoner, I could flip back and forth between 4 skills.  #1 could have skills A & B.  #2  needs to have something different (so C&D).  #3 can go back to A & B, etc.
3b. on the other side, for a "full" (7 person) prison, I need to have 16 skills in rotation.
3a. You can not flip back and forth between four skills for the first 7 prisoners due to the rule below:
"The first seven Sims arrested must each max two unique 10-level skills, after which they are considered rehabilitated and ready for release."
This means that the first 14 skills must be different.
3b. Please re-read the rule about what happens after you've released your first 7 prisoners.

4. Prisoners are only allowed in the yard during the 2 hours?  Other than that, they're in the shower/recroom or workshop? Can they be in their cells outside of lockup?
4a. Can the workshop/kitchen be combined?
4b. Can we change the structure of the prison later on, if we have funds?  OR is adding cells/showers the only allowed change?
4. Yes and yes.
4a. The workshop should be a separate room from the kitchen/cafeteria/rec room, but feel free to somehow attach the rooms though a wall if you wish.
4b. You can grow your prison however you wish, as long as you have those rooms listed under the starter prison plus enough showers, furnished prison cells, and dining facilities to accommodate your prisoners.



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Offline jesslc

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2022, 03:46:58 AM »
Lots of questions...

1.
It doesn't seem to be spelled out in the rules but I would think a prison challenge means that the prisoners are not allowed to leave the prison at all until they are ready to move out after being "rehabilitated".

But as it doesn't appear to be written out (or maybe I missed it)... so can the prisoners go off lot for whatever I want? Or are they not allowed out of the prison at all and thus certain skills won't be possible? Or something in between - like they can go out for skill stuff (eg. fishing) but nothing else?

Probably the name of this challenge is meant to indicate what the answer is but I'd like to be completely clear :)

2.
How about the kleptomanic trait - no extra rehabilitation points for this one?

3.
If we accidentally lose track of the time and our prisoners aren't locked in their cells by 11 pm, do we fail the challenge immediately?

If the team would like to allow a little leaway for error on this, here's one possible suggestion you could go with... If you accidentally miss the 11pm deadline for locking prisoners in their cells, you can keep going with your challenge but your prisoners have to spend the whole of the next day locked into the cells (no skilling) so that there's no way they can possibly miss the 11pm deadline the next night. Then, 6am on the next morning after they spent the full night in their cells you can go back to the normal schedule. It would be a significant penalty but not quite much as an immediate fail. (Or various other options along these lines.)

4.
I don't think I fully understand the rule about the outside yard. Are the prisoners meant to all go outside in the yard together? Or does it mean that if 1 prisoner goes outside for 2hrs, that's it, no other prisoners are allowed outside in the yard on that day? Or...?

5.
We ignore the $2000 cash requirement for our first arrest, yes? After following the set up instructions we will only have $1000 and the warden is only allowed make money by arresting prisoners.

6.
Selling off skilling items once we no longer need them for our prisoners - allowed or not allowed? I'm not sure whether this would fall under any of the acceptable income categories.

7.
Can I build myself a starter prison this week, save it into my library and then place it into my real file once I start the challenge? It would save me time on building next week.

Also, sharing it with others via the gallery - yay or nay? It wouldn't be anything special though.

8.
The way I understand it is you have to do 14 unique skills with your first 7 prisoners (2 each) but then after that you only have to make sure that a prisoner's 2 skills are different from the last prisoner to leave.  Eg. If prisoner #8 does writing and mixology, prisoner #9 can't do either of these but prisoner #10 can do writing & mixology.

If a prisoner finished unexpectedly early causing an issue with your order, then I guess you have to keep them in the prison until they can leave without breaking the rule..? Ie. With the same example from above, if prisoner #8 has just left and prisoner #10 unexpectedly finishes writing & mixology before #9 is done... then I would assume that #10 still cannot leave until after #9 (or another prisoner with different skills to #8) has been rehabilitated and moved out first. Is this right?

Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2022, 02:01:51 PM »
Lots of questions...

1. It doesn't seem to be spelled out in the rules but I would think a prison challenge means that the prisoners are not allowed to leave the prison at all until they are ready to move out after being "rehabilitated".
But as it doesn't appear to be written out (or maybe I missed it)... so can the prisoners go off lot for whatever I want? Or are they not allowed out of the prison at all and thus certain skills won't be possible? Or something in between - like they can go out for skill stuff (eg. fishing) but nothing else?
Probably the name of this challenge is meant to indicate what the answer is but I'd like to be completely clear :)
Once sims enter the prison, the warden should lock them inside the prison until their release. No leaving the prison, even to fish.
However, doors might get unlocked while the warden's away arresting a new sim.  I play-tested this and the prisoners remained in their cells during the warden's 90-min. absence.
In my multi-gen challenges, though, a sim often returns home to find locked doors unlocked.
If your warden comes back to find their prisoners not where they should be, just send them back to their proper places and check the door locks.

2.
How about the kleptomanic trait - no extra rehabilitation points for this one?
No.

3. If we accidentally lose track of the time and our prisoners aren't locked in their cells by 11 pm, do we fail the challenge immediately?
If the team would like to allow a little leaway for error on this, here's one possible suggestion you could go with... If you accidentally miss the 11pm deadline for locking prisoners in their cells, you can keep going with your challenge but your prisoners have to spend the whole of the next day locked into the cells (no skilling) so that there's no way they can possibly miss the 11pm deadline the next night. Then, 6am on the next morning after they spent the full night in their cells you can go back to the normal schedule. It would be a significant penalty but not quite much as an immediate fail. (Or various other options along these lines.)
The lockup time has been modified to a 10:45-11:15 pm range, followed by 7 consecutive hours of lockup.
A penalty of a 31-hour lockup has been added for missing the lockup time (the usual 7-hour lockup plus 24 additional hours).

4. I don't think I fully understand the rule about the outside yard. Are the prisoners meant to all go outside in the yard together? Or does it mean that if 1 prisoner goes outside for 2hrs, that's it, no other prisoners are allowed outside in the yard on that day? Or...?
Yes, the prisoners all get 2 hours of outside time together each day. It's considered a privilege of sorts. 
They'll need to walk through the yard to get to different parts of the prison, but they can only "hang out" there for 2 hours a day.
Due to limited starting funds, your outdoor yard will start out small and empty but you can make it more appealing later.

5. We ignore the $2000 cash requirement for our first arrest, yes? After following the set up instructions we will only have $1000 and the warden is only allowed make money by arresting prisoners.
Yes, that's correct.  Your warden has only $1,000 but would already have a cell and shower ready for their first "guest."

6. Selling off skilling items once we no longer need them for our prisoners - allowed or not allowed? I'm not sure whether this would fall under any of the acceptable income categories.
Not allowed. If your prison doesn't have room to place the skilling object on the lot, place it in the prison inventory.

7. Can I build myself a starter prison this week, save it into my library and then place it into my real file once I start the challenge? It would save me time on building next week.
Also, sharing it with others via the gallery - yay or nay? It wouldn't be anything special though.
All players have two options for their starter prison: (1) build their own prison or (2) download/edit the starter prison linked in the first post.
The starter prison provided could be much cheaper for players with additional packs, but I used all base game items out of anticipation of a "Not base game" comment from you, lol.
Please do not upload your starter prison to the Gallery until after the challenge ends.
It's fine, however, for players to build their own starter prison or edit the starter prison provided in advance, then upload it to their MyLibrary for later use.

8. The way I understand it is you have to do 14 unique skills with your first 7 prisoners (2 each) but then after that you only have to make sure that a prisoner's 2 skills are different from the last prisoner to leave.  Eg. If prisoner #8 does writing and mixology, prisoner #9 can't do either of these but prisoner #10 can do writing & mixology.

If a prisoner finished unexpectedly early causing an issue with your order, then I guess you have to keep them in the prison until they can leave without breaking the rule..? Ie. With the same example from above, if prisoner #8 has just left and prisoner #10 unexpectedly finishes writing & mixology before #9 is done... then I would assume that #10 still cannot leave until after #9 (or another prisoner with different skills to #8) has been rehabilitated and moved out first. Is this right?
That's correct. In your scenario, Prisoner #10 would have to wait until after the release of another prisoner who's maxed skills other than Writing/Mixology.

Offline Nikitachi

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2022, 05:30:49 AM »
Quote
When arresting/moving in a Sim from a multi-Sim household, the Warden may only transfer $500 of their household funds to the prison.

When I add a sim this way, the game gives me extra money... What should I do with it?

Quote
Outdoor yard with a trash can (may add seating, plants, fitness objects)

I'm afraid I don't really get what yard is made for... Prisoners can communicate with each other not only in the yard, can't they? Also, must the fitness skilling objects be placed in the yard only, not in the skilling room? Can I dig a pond to fish in the yard?

Offline jesslc

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2022, 12:39:48 PM »
Thanks for the answers!

Sorry I'm still a bit confused about this.

Is the outdoor yard time mandatory or is it optional/up to me? For example - can I choose to have 2 of my prisoners go outside during today's yard time but keep my remaining prisoners inside?
All prisoners spend two hours a day in the outdoor yard, at the same time.

Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2022, 02:58:25 PM »
When arresting/moving in a Sim from a multi-Sim household, the Warden may only transfer $500 of their household funds to the prison.

When I add a sim this way, the game gives me extra money... What should I do with it?
Nikitachi, I just play-tested this.
My prison household (test save, obviously) had $11,250 in funds, then I added a sim from a two-sim household.
In the Move menu, I moved Prisoner X to the prison household, transferred $500 from the prisoner's household to the warden's household, then clicked the checkmark at the bottom right of the screen to complete the move.
My prison household's funds increased by exactly $500.
I don't know what else to tell you.

Quote
Outdoor yard with a trash can (may add seating, plants, fitness objects)
I'm afraid I don't really get what yard is made for... Prisoners can communicate with each other not only in the yard, can't they? Also, must the fitness skilling objects be placed in the yard only, not in the skilling room? Can I dig a pond to fish in the yard?
The outdoor yard rule gives the challenge a semblance of how real life prison works.
Some aspects of this prison challenge are absurd, like the only way a Warden can add to his prison is befriending a sim to arrest them.
According to US and United Nations regulations on prison treatment, however, prisoners have a legal right to at least 1 hour daily of outdoor exercise/recreation.
In this tournament challenge, the prisoners are given two mandatory hours daily in the outdoor yard.

Yes to placing fitness skilling objects wherever you want. (Btw, it makes no difference if a prisoner makes the same skill as another prisoner; only the two counted for release actually count.)
Yes to building a pond in the outdoor yard.



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Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2022, 06:41:01 PM »
Two rules have been added regarding Lockup:
- During Lockup, you (the Watcher) are not allowed to control the prisoners for any reason, except a fire.
- During an extended (31-hour) Lockup, the Warden will need to leave meals for the prisoners in their cells.

Offline Deklitch

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2022, 09:21:21 PM »
What happens if Warden dies?

What happens if Prisoner/s die?

Offline Metropolis Man

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2022, 10:02:09 AM »
What happens if Warden dies?

What happens if Prisoner/s die?

If the Warden dies it's game over, so post your score at that point. If any prisoners die, just keep going.

Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2022, 07:19:09 PM »
After further discussion by the Team on Deklitch's questions, the following changes were made to the rules and Scoring.
Note that an edited version of the spreadsheet is available.

Added rule about death:
-If your Warden dies, then your challenge ends so post your score up to that point. If a prisoner dies, you lose one point but may continue the challenge.

Added a fourth Scoring category:
- Deaths: minus 1 point for any prisoner who dies in prison before being released.
  The linked spreadsheet has been edited accordingly.

Offline Deklitch

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2022, 08:48:19 PM »
You are welcome everyone! :D

Offline oshizu

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2022, 09:27:29 PM »
You're welcome, Deklitch. ;)

Offline jesslc

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2022, 12:43:06 PM »
I arrested three sims from multi-sim households in my practice file tonight and I think the game gave me the wrong amount of money each time.

I didn't write down the exact amount of money I had before and after, but the first time I saw the green +$amount appear above my household funds saying I'd gained around $17,000. And my funds had definitely made a very noticable jump (ie. I'm sure my funds were somewhere in the 30k range and after they were 50k+).

That sim came from a 4 sim household which had significantly more than $17,000 in funds and I had told the game to give me $500 of their funds.

The other two times I think I received around $800 and around $700, even though that's not what I told the game to do.

I will try to give this another test on the weekend and make sure I write down the exact amount I had before and after just in case that makes it any clearer what's happening. Do you want me to send you the names of the sims I arrested?


Quote
Outdoor yard: All prisoners are allowed a collective 2-hour period in the yard daily
Can I suggest adjusting the wording of this rule? Maybe it's because I'm not American but I initially read "All prisoners are allowed..." to mean that this is optional. I now understand that yard time is mandatory but if someone doesn't read this second page before starting they might miss that.

Offline Metropolis Man

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Re: Prison Challenge? Warden You Like to Know!
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2022, 01:04:57 PM »


Quote
Outdoor yard: All prisoners are allowed a collective 2-hour period in the yard daily
Can I suggest adjusting the wording of this rule? Maybe it's because I'm not American but I initially read "All prisoners are allowed..." to mean that this is optional. I now understand that yard time is mandatory but if someone doesn't read this second page before starting they might miss that.

<<All prisoners must take a collective 2-hour period in the yard daily.>>

Is that more clear, jesslc? oshizu, what do you think?