Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)

[_Annika_]

Thank you for that detailed analysis DarkWalker. I wasn't sure about the retail price tag and a how the rest of those numbers were applied. Of course, now that you have pointed it out, I see that there is also the crafting cost flat fee, so of course the retail price tag must be the base sell price for size.

The added chance for masterpieces per level was something I didn't see - that would be why my sim seemed to paint more masterpieces for Classical. This bit of information is very helpful for completing the Painter Extraordinaire aspiration, because you have to paint a number of masterpieces. Sticking to Classical while trying to achieve this goal will help to get it done faster.

I'm glad we've got you here to explain these kinds of things Hopefully I can pick it up as I go. It looks like I need to pay more attention to the <>start and </>end of each ... phrase (like I probably already mentioned - no programming skills). They weren't quite so important in Sims3 _XML. I took one or two classes in Blue at university, which was supposedly like C++, but it was only enough to get the basic concept of programming. The rest (which also is not much) I learnt through games.

[ClayMask]

Thanks for the information.  I wonder if it matters what size you paint while your paintings are increasing in value?  For example, if you were planning on painting with a Sim for a long time, would it be better to paint small paintings for the first 100 or so, or would these 100 not count towards large paintings of the same type?

[BzGoose]

I love this thread. I love graphs. 

Thanks for the information.  I wonder if it matters what size you paint while your paintings are increasing in value?  For example, if you were planning on painting with a Sim for a long time, would it be better to paint small paintings for the first 100 or so, or would these 100 not count towards large paintings of the same type?

It seems to me, from my interpretation of the data, that the number of times you paint a certain type of painting doesn't factor into the value. As long as you are at level 10 painting skill, large (which has a base value that multiples) Abstract paintings are your "go to" if you seek a painting of the highest value.   

Though this discussion generates a interesting question. Yes, large Abstract paintings have been deduced to be the most high valued painting, but what if time was factored into it? Sorta re-formatting the initial question from "What painting variation is of the most highest value?" to "Which painting variation is the most profitable?". Large Abstract paintings made by Perfectionists may yield higher valued paintings, but would smaller abstract paintings made  by non-perfectionists beat them out in time? I admittedly have to put more of my OWN research time into these things, then lazily inquiring to those that have done most of the work. 

[ClayMask]

Something I'm wondering about and don't see mentioned here yet is how much having the perfectionist trait boosts the value of the paintings.  I wonder if it boosts it enough to make up for the extra time that the paintings take?

[Metropolis Man]

Something I'm wondering about and don't see mentioned here yet is how much having the perfectionist trait boosts the value of the paintings.  I wonder if it boosts it enough to make up for the extra time that the paintings take?

On a related note, I am wondering from a sheer money making perspective would painting small sizes earn you more money than large ones given you could crank out more over, say a week?

[Viccatrix]

Abstract is the best. Just reached lvl 10 painting a half hour ago, and already painted a $13,537 painting.

[coolsim9999999]

Welcome to the forum Viccatrix !

Cool .  That's about how much your Sim with a level 10 painting skill will make.  I think my Sim with a level 10 painting skill got §15,000 at some point --- or a little more.

[TrueSimmer95]

Large painting price comparison
All painted while very inspired with best easel (Deluxe All-Season Easel from painting career, painting quality: 9).  My Sim is a level 10 in painting and has the following traits of influence:
Perfectionist (Higher quality items)
Creative (Inspired moodlet and painting builds fun need)
Loner (For easier uninterrupted painting, no need for social interaction)
Creative visionary (Higher masterpiece odds)
Marketable (Higher base value of paintings)
Though not required, the reward traits that slow down needs decay are really helpful for completing a large amount of paintings in relatively little time. (E.g. steel bladder, never weary)

Also included were the lot traits "Home Studio" and "Natural Light". Though it is unknown whether the second lot trait has any influence on painting quality, it is worth mentioning. 

After gathering all the data I will use SPSS Statistics to make full comparisons between the 4 types of paintings. (Yes I do have a lot of time on my hands, it's summer vacation).

My expectations:
Surrealism will have the highest variance in value. Roughly meaning the largest average gap between the highest and lowest value paintings. (Confirmed)
Surrealism will have the lowest average value of paintings and the lowest valued painting. (Partially Confirmed)
Surrealism will have the highest valued (single) painting of all the 4 types. (Confirmed)
Classic will have the highest amount of masterpieces. (Confirmed)
Abstract will have the highest average value of paintings. (EXTREMELY Disconfirmed)
Abstract will have the highest minumum value. (Disconfirmed)

Note:
The "M" after certain paintings indicates a masterpiece. All other paintings (all of them Excellent quality) are shown at their base value, and not the art gallery value.
Paintings were completed in the order shown, so first 20 Realism paintings, then 20 Surrealism, etc. It is unknown to me whether the order of painting has any influence on the price or the quality. It could be that mixing things up leads to higher or lower valued paintings. Researching this would take a very long time though.
Before starting this research I completed an unknown amount of various painting types, qualities and sizes. This may or may not have influence on the results of this experiment.
I left out the painting types of Impressionism and Pop Art because in my 11 days of playing-time in The Sims 4 it became pretty obvious that those 2 types have lower value. For example I once got a Pop Art masterpiece worth a measly 800$ or so.

Realism
4,209$ (M)
2,521$
3,497$
1,781$
9,113$ (M)
3,708$
3,698$
7,389$ (M)
3,719$
3,129$
5,554$ (M)
5,878$ (M)
3,442$
3,065$
1,568$
3,412$
1,332$
3,419$ (M)
3,418$
2,159$
Immediate reaction: Realism seems to be a really steady painting type with little variance.

Surrealism
1,411$
1,300$
1,654$
11,196$ (M)
1,980$
735$
1,076$
7,964$ (M)
743$
1,934$
1,782$
1,677$
4,629$ (M)
10,540$ (M)
4,385$ (M)
10,476$ (M)
1,287$
11,661$ (M)
1,679$
6,737$ (M)
Immediate reaction: Surrealism, as expected, looks like the type that gives you extremes in both directions. Remains to be seen whether it can beat the other types for average value.

Classic
5,278$ (M)
5,109$ (M)
5,740$ (M)
5,468$ (M)
1,213$
2,490$
1,458$
1,530$
5,702$ (M)
8,193$ (M)
4,636$ (M)
2,161$
5,265$ (M)
1,453$
846$
9,677$ (M)
3,283$ (M)
8,247$ (M)
2,375$
1,776$
Immediate reaction: while the masterpiece frequency is really high for classic paintings, they seem to have a low average masterpiece value compared to Surrealism. Note the very similar masterpiece values ~5,000$ (Except for painting 10 and 16). Don't expect any legendary value classic paintings.

Abstract
8,931$ (M)
1,314$
8,030$ (M)
3,740$ (M)
2,545$
8,101$ (M)
3,728$
1,941$
2,617$
4,994$ (M)
1,411$
2,342$
2,242$
1,998$
1,566$
6,551$ (M)
2,304$
1,362$
3,112$
2,195$
Immediate reaction: well that was disappointing. It turns out Abstract isn't anywhere as good as I thought. Aside from relatively low masterpiece odds, it seems at first sight that abstract also has a very low average painting value.

After reading through all of the values I think that either Surrealism or Classic will come out as the best type to paint. With Surrealism being more high risk high reward and Classic being more playing it safe.

Results of statistical comparison:
The average value of a painting in general was 3922$.
Average value per type: -Realism: 3800$. -Surrealism: 4242$. -Classic: 4095$. -Abstract: 3551$.
Masterpiece ratio per type: -Realism: 0.30. -Surrealism: 0.40. -Classic: 0.55. -Abstract: 0.30.
Lowest valued painting belongs to: Surrealism
Highest valued painting also belongs to: Surrealism.
Logically the largest variance belongs to Surrealism as well.
Overall the distribution of painting value is normal but skewed to the right, meaning that you'll paint a lot more below average value paintings than above.

Conclusions:
While none of the comparisons are actually statistically significant, the differences are pretty clear from a gaming standpoint.
The most significant difference is between Surrealism and Abstract, on average a large Surrealism painting will get you 691$ more than a large Abstract painting, which really adds up over time.
The least significant difference is that between Surrealism and Classic, with Surrealism only earning you 147$ more on average.
Naturally I understand that drawing conclusions from 80 paintings is a risky business. Depending on the reception of this comment I might do a much larger experiment in the future.

Closing comments:
I'm really happy I did this experiment, since after playing this game so much and reading about the painting skill in forums etc., I still wasn't sure which type was the best to paint consistently.
Overall I'd say that there are 3 tiers/categories of paintings:
Low-tier consisting of Pop Art and Impressionism
Mid-tier consisting of Abstract and Realism
High-tier consisting of Classic and Surrealism

If you're the type of person who gets disappointed after painting for hours in Sims-time and only getting an 800$ painting, then I would advise staying away from the risky Surrealism paintings and stick to Classic. After all, these paintings give you the best chance of painting a masterpiece and carry the lowest risk with them.
If you're planning on painting in bulk (20+ paintings) or if you're like me and you're looking for that 20,000$ unicorn of a painting, then Surrealism is your best bet.

For me I've pretty much done everything with the content I have available to me, but I still dream of the day that I see a 20,000$ masterpiece on my screen. Because then I'll finally have a worthy centerpiece to the great mansion that is my Sims 4 career.

Never play at normal speed 

(Attached picture taken after experiment, almost found my unicorn)

[Playalot]

Welcome to the forum TrueSimmer95. Very cool experiment. It seems though that recently sims seem to have a 'preferred' genre to paint the highest priced painting. I haven't actually done any real testing on this but just noticed that two of my painters can get the highest priced paintings in two different genres.  Sim A constantly gets this in Abstract while Sim B constantly gets this with Realism. Just thought I'd mention this as I am wondering if the newish lot traits are causing this slight change to the painting mechanics.

[MissZoef]

Never saw this threat before, but I love the research you did. Very interesting to read. Hope you've found your "unicorn"

[Fidea]

Hey guys!

As an add-on to the others who have done similar tests of their own, I’ve gone for the LLN (law of large numbers) approach!  While I would generally not consider a total of 3,500 paintings to be “large” in LLN terms, it offers greater statistical power than the small sample tests I’ve done before.  In addition, I believe the inferences from my experiment to be more representative of the mathematical distribution programmed by the creators of the game.  Each genre sample set contains 500 paintings from that genre.  The overall experiment has spanned approximately 50 hours in total and I've detailed my methodology/results/conclusions below.

If anyone reading this is interested in running your own experiment, I recommend the setup as detailed in the methodology.

METHODOLOGY

Pre-test conditions
- Gameplay Conditions
     No Aging
     No Autonomy
- New Sim: Anne Experiment
     CAS Traits: Creative, Art Lover, Perfectionist, Muser (From Creative Aspiration selected in CAS)
     Reward Traits: Marketable, Creative Visionary, Connections, Entrepreneurial
     Aspiration Trait (Painter Extraordinaire, Maxed): Expressionistic
     Lot Traits: Home Studio, Natural Light, Private Dwelling
     Painting Skill, Maxed (10)
- Cheats Used (best way to keep conditions identical throughout all sets)
     World Needs Decay Disabled
     World Needs Filled
     Career Rewards Unlocked
     Aspiration Points provided to purchase necessary traits
     Simoleons provided to purchase necessary building materials, easels, and inspirational décor

Test Conditions
- Experimental Sets include 500 paintings per set, completed in batches of 100 and rounds of 10 paintings each.
- Sim remained “Very Inspired” at all times during the test (entirely through environmental boosts, no potions were used).
- Painting Skill and Painting Aspiration maxed prior to testing.

RESULTS

MAIN EXPERIMENT – Painting Genres
Set 1 – 500 Large Classic paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel
Set 2 – 500 Large Abstract paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel
Set 3 – 500 Large Pop Art paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel
Set 4 – 500 Large Realism paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel
Set 5 – 500 Large Impressionism paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel
Set 6 – 500 Large Surrealism paintings completed on Deluxe All-Season Easel

Summarized Findings
Different Painting genres are good for different economic or aspirational purposes (beyond the desire for a specific design).  Here are my recommendations based on the data:

1. If you’re going for pure total income, stick with Abstract paintings.  While they have a relatively low rate for masterworks (34.60%), they have the highest overall average income of all painting types.  The paintings in this genre earn, on average, $350 more than the next highest earner (Realism).  In addition, they earn an average of $740 more than Classic paintings.  I did see a significant amount of variation between each of my sample subsets (in blocks of 20 paintings each), which may explain TrueSimmer95’s assessment of low Abstract values given the use of a 20-painting sample size.  By increasing the scale to 500 paintings per genre, I think I’ve managed to settle on something much closer to the intended values programmed into the game.

Total Amounts Earned by Genre (Average per painting)
1.   Abstract – $1,978,547 (Average: $3,957.09)
2.   Realism – $1,799,829 (Average: $3,599.66)
3.   Classic – $1,609,170 (Average: $3,218.34)
4.   Surrealism - $1,558,134 (Average: $3,116.27)
5.   Landscape - $1,291,313 (Average: $2,582.63)
6.   Pop Art - $974,165 (Average: $1,948.33)
7.   Impressionism - $541,499 (Average: $1,083)

2. If you’re going for the highest percentage of masterworks, stick with Impressionism or Classical paintings.  The Impressionism sample group had a masterwork rate of 47.40% and the Classic sample group had a masterwork rate of 41.60%.  If you want a good balance between income and masterworks, go with Classical, which earns significantly more than Impressionism by approximately $2,150 on average per painting.

Percentage of Masterworks by Genre
1.   Impressionism – 47.40%
2.   Classic – 41.60%
3.   Landscape – 38.80%
4.   Pop Art – 37.20%
5.   Surrealism – 34.80%
6.   Abstract – 34.60%
7.   Realism – 32.80%

3. If you’re going for high-value Excellent Quality paintings, because you don’t yet have the buffs/bonuses to achieve a higher percentage of Masterpiece Quality paintings, Realism paintings are your best bet.  Realism paintings of Excellent quality earn an average of 150 simoleons more than Abstract paintings of Excellent Quality.  This could be useful early in your sim’s painting career.  Both Abstract and Realism share a similarly low percentage of masterworks: 34.60% and 32.80%, respectively.  One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the difference here may be so minimal, you might just be better off doing Abstract paintings in case you do create a Masterpiece Quality painting.  On average, Abstract earns $1,000 more than Realism at the Masterpiece level.

4. If you’re going for the highest possible simoleon value on a single painting, stick with Surrealism paintings.  The Surrealism genre has the highest standard deviation for masterwork values across all genres, which results in exceptionally high single-painting values.  This large deviation also results in extremely low masterwork values, so this genre shouldn’t be used to achieve high overall income.  Be prepared to slog through a lot of low-value paintings before you hit the big one (as previously dubbed: The Unicorn).  Average Masterwork value for a Surrealism painting is second only to Abstract ($6,112.70 and $6,982.67 respectively) but it has a chart-topping standard deviation of $3,728.23.

For those of you familiar with the 68-95-99 rule, this suggests 99% of the paintings will fall below a value of $18,167.36 (3 standard deviations from the mean).  I’m fairly certain the randomization metric for masterworks is heavily skewed to the right because all of my masterwork median values were much lower than the means, indicating the presence of outliers. In comparison, most of my Excellent Quality (non-masterwork) values appear to represent something very close to a normal distribution.  In the case of Surrealism Masterworks, the median was almost $900 less than the mean.  All other genres had medians that were only $100-200 less than the mean for masterworks.  Now, in case I have some master statisticians out there, I’m fully aware that the relationship between mean, median, and standard deviation doesn’t absolutely imply skew, but for these purposes I’m willing to make the leap.  The GOOD news from all of this is that a $20,000+ painting is obviously possible, but it might take a long time to get there.  Of the 500 Surrealism paintings I completed, I came just short of that goal.

Of the 3,500 paintings in this portion of the study, the top-10 highest value paintings were all Surrealism and are listed below.

1.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $19,325
2.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $17,602
3.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $17,167
4.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $16,140
5.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $15,993
6.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $15,711
7.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $15,640
8.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $14,931
9.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $14,225
10.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $14,095
11.   Abstract       Masterpiece    $13,428
12.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $13,373
13.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $13,113
14.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $13,053
15.   Surrealism    Masterpiece    $12,981

5. Unless you’re looking for a specific design to decorate your home, there is little economic reason to paint Landscape, Pop Art, or Impressionism paintings.  Impressionism might be good when trying to finish the last tier of the Painter Extraordinaire Aspiration, but otherwise offers no financial benefits.

Ending Remarks

I plan to add additional details about my study later.  I have a spreadsheet where I collected and analyzed the data.  I’ll look at hosting it somewhere so you guys can download your own copy if you so desire.  I’m in the process of creating several visuals to go with my results and will post those when I have time.  I've included table summaries/descriptives as image attachments, but I'm not sure if they are visible.  I may end up removing them if they don't show up.

Overall, this was an entertaining and rewarding experiment that answers my long-standing curiosity regarding the Sims 4 Painting skill.  I’m happy to share my data if you want to poke at it yourself.  Just send me a message and I’ll find a way to get it to you.

Best wishes!

Fidea