CC why doesn't EA?....

[Happytime]

Joria, super-interesting thread, and a great discussion.

if these people can make these things AFTER EA puts out its games, why can't EA make them for us to begin with?

Well, I've really not snooped about for non-EA Custom Content (for some reason EA's chosen to label even The Store stuff Custom Content), but the simple answer to your question is EA can't be all things to all people.

Someone, somewhere, is going to want something "just not available," and some folks are motivated to try and make those "somethings" themselves.

It's pretty clear EA (not Maxis, but the current development branch of EA responsible for the Sims Franchise, I think it's called "Sim Studios" or something) has a love/hate relationship with "custom content." On one hand, they've got a bunch of folks that create and distribute content for a gaming platform they control (and own the rights to) pretty much for free. On the other, EA has these folks are out there, in the "wilderness" with little or no quality-control or oversight hacking in-game objects that have the potential to really crud up games.

I wasn't affected by the evil doll fiasco, but what was crazy about that it was EA's own distribution / sharing network (The Exchange) that provided the larger platform for distributing that bug. It's a shame one person who just wanted to "create" a special doll (by hacking in-game objects) could cause so much damage. And the one time I've downloaded a Sims3 Sim from the Exchange, I accidentally pulled down the "wear pants while in the shower" bug ... most likely because the "creator" of that Sim had used non-EA custom content.

Illuminator, I'm in complete agreement with you. I think EA's shooting itself in the foot by not selling / distributing "safe Custom Content Creation tools." Part of the problem is to make the 3-D meshes the game expects to see, you need some pretty high-powered software (I think Sim Studios uses Maya, from what I can see in the promotional videos), and those programs sell for several thousand dollars a seat. Even licensing portions of the code for "creation" would cost them quite a bit. I don't think it'd be a 50 Euro price point, but then again, they could easily sell several hundred thousand copies.

Well I've typed enough. Interesting thoughts, folks!

  -- Happytime

[Joria]

I watched pretty much all the videos EA has put up for promo purposes and in one of them they have these wonderful creators come to EA headquarters and play around with Sims 3 before it was released.  They even had them make some CC and try it out while there.  I guess it was a week long seminar or something.  It was really interesting to me to see names I knew well from CC I got for Sims2 doing that.  They were all so excited and enthusiastic about 3 and you could almost see the wheels turning in their heads about what they were going to make next once the game was out.  So if EA obviously knows these folk, why not pick their ever so creative brains and use their stuff.  I guess it really doesn't make sense to me because I for one would buy some of the great stuff they offer and DO buy quite a bit from the EA store.  I even gift others for some of it.

I do know about the fairy wings etc.  I don't own the clothing set yet but I do own all the fairyland furnishings.  It's lovely.  Just haven't had time to do a fair folk lot yet.  But even there, it's not what I see as fair folk clothing.  I look more to Lord of the Rings type stuff for them, including hair that goes down to their knees or longer, which isn't all that unrealistic.  I had a friend whose hair literally trailed on the ground behind her, as did her sister.  It took three people to wash and groom it.  They finally cut it all off and donated the hair to Locks of Love.  Stopped having headaches and backaches after that and swore to never grow it that long again.

Most of the hair styles in cas are pretty cool, and I will sometimes use hair to buffer a slightly unfortunate facial tendency.  In real life I can't imagine why anyone would want all that hair in their face unless they feel a need to hide their face!  But then, people have always done things others might consider strange or ugly for a fashion choice.  Forinstance, plucking out ALL your eyebrows and hair line so it goes far back on your head to give you a higher forehead, then plopping a dunce cap looking "hennin" on top all for the sake of fashion.

[Happytime]

Hey Joria! 

Yeah, I recall the Creator Camp videos, as well. The Creator Camp was part marketing, part customer interviews / feedback, and a healthy sprinkling of hype. I thought even at the time it was a way for EA to ratchet up the enthusiasm in the Sims community for the release of the Sims3.

I'm not privy to EA's larger Sims franchise strategy, but I agree: there are times when EA's dealings with "the Sims community" doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense in regards to custom content creation and delivery.

It would seem a well-managed partnership would be better for the franchise's bottom-line (as you alluded, it'd be great to be able to purchase some of the neat third-party Custom Content that floats around the interweb directly from The Store). And if EA's able and willing to partner with companies for "custom content," one would think they might be able to interwork a bit better with the larger community, as well.

  -- Happytime

[Leto85]

Not to offend you Joria, but I thought that talking about CC was absolutely forbidden to discuss on this forum. But now there is a topic associated to it I maybe find an exception here.

I've read your line: 'So, my question is, if these people can make these things AFTER EA puts out its games, why can't EA make them for us to begin with?'
But I didn't quite understand it. Do you mean why EA didn't make an expansion itself including what players have made as CC? If so, that is a good question. I can only assume that they didn't do that because not enough people will play it and it could sell less than the already made expansions. But that is only a consideration.
To substantiate this I can give you two examples for that: Late Night and Medieval. As far as I can tell Late Night is a bit of a hotchpotch where elements from previous expansions for The Sims 2 are put together, mostly asked by the gamers themselves. Like the re-introduction of vampires, hottubs, drumsets from TS2 Student life (or what it is called), the ability to become famous like in The Sims 1 Superstar, decorating apartments like in the last expansion Apartments from The Sims 2, and so on, etc. Of course, there are new elements in game which will make the whole experience refreshing compared to the other games. But what I will say with this, EA already knows that the players want this stuff because they already have experienced it, and they are asking for it. And they do not know that for sure with the stuff that players made in CC.
The other example with Medieval is that, in my opinion, EA is experiencing another gameplay for The Sims 3. They are curious about how players will enjoy the sims in a sort of Lord of the Rings style background. Therefore, this is a standalone game, and not a expansion like the others. In the future, they could consider to make an expansion out of it to. But before the time is there, they need to know how we gamers will react to a game like Medieval.
I hope this has somehow answered your question enough. And I really like to hear your opinion about the content of this post.

[Leto85]

Y'know, if EA wanted to, they could get permission from authors of CC that look good, or are popular with people, and remake them into official items. That way, there's less bad CC, and more encoragement to make good CC that EA will pick.

I remember that EA has did that in the past.

[The Illuminator]

Really? Do you have any examples? I would be very surprised if EA actually did that...

[Leto85]

Really? Do you have any examples? I would be very surprised if EA actually did that...

I was breaking my head about it (only you knows what that means ) but if I could remember an example about that I surely have named it here.

[Pam]

Not to offend you Joria, but I thought that talking about CC was absolutely forbidden to discuss on this forum. But now there is a topic associated to it I maybe find an exception here.

I think this topic is ok.  There are no links to mod sites or even the names being mentioned.  The discussion is as much about what EA is doing with the game's content as anything else, so it's fine. 

[Sarah]

When TS1 was out I did download CC from 'other' sites and never had a problem with it. I don't think I ever did download anything when TS2 came out, and now I've TS3 the only things I've downloaded have all been Sim Store CC so I know it's safe.

I've looked on the Exchange at Sims but not downloaded any since I feel that a lot of them aren't really all that fabulous. I've seen plenty with fancy hairstyles but they look really false; if I want to see really bad hair extensions I'll take a walk through town on a Saturday night, not download them for my Sim! I feel that the hairstyles that ship with the games are fine, as are the ones you can find on the Store. Don't get me wrong, some of them are horrid too, but I find myself with plenty of choice.

In regards to houses I prefer to build my own so I rarely go looking for them, either on the Exchange or on mod sites. That said, if I ever did want to download a house I'd definitely download one by members of this forum because I'd know they'd be safe, and there are a lot of very talented builders on the forum too.

Sometimes I'd like to build new objects, or find myself frustrated that I can't recolour them in the exact way I want, but it's not a gamebreaker for me. When Create-A-Pattern was announced I was pretty excited about it, but I've not gotten around to downloading it. TS3 is enough of a time sink for me and I think I'd rather keep that as my major time sink, not C-A-P, which I've a sneaky feeling would consume my computer time if I did get it! That said (and echoing what others have said), it would be nice if we could create our own objects. EA sort of have form for this; MySims on Wii allows you to create furniture in game and perhaps a more sophisticated version of that would be nice. Although, I think that would turn into another time sink!

I think the reason EA hold back on certain objects - electric guitar, hot tub, etc - is purely a business decision. Give the people what they want immediately with the vanilla game lessens the 'must have' factor of expansion/stuff packs. The reason I bought HEL stuff pack was for the aquarium and electric guitar (well that and a gift card...). I'd have happily left that stuff pack in the shop if it hadn't come with those two items, no matter how much the other objects, hairstyles and outfits appealed to me.

So the long and the short of it is, EA don't give us what we want so we'll keep buying EP's and Stuff packs. Whilst we wait for it, there are people who'll make their own versions instead.

[Happytime]

Thanks for your post, Sarah. Interesting thoughts.

I was late to Sims1 (by the time I was purchasing the discs, the advertisements for the Sims2 were already in the inserts) so never had much TS1 third-party custom content; while playing Sims2 I was a "third party custom-content fiend," in some respects. Sims3, I've not yet installed any non-EA created, co-branded, or sponsored (via the Exchange) content.

I agree whatever EA's "strategy" actually is surrounding third-party custom content is tangled up in "business decisions." EA's a business, the only reason it exists (or continues to exist) is to make money.

It's clear with the release of the Sims3 they've made efforts to tighten or restrict control over third-party cc. That said, they certainly aren't making efforts to shut down or restrict folks who create and distribute such content. Again, I'm sure it's a business decisions at work, but among the many factors affecting that decision are:

(1) It's really not clear (circa 2010) the license restrictions EA ships the Sims under would actually hold up in court (if pressed to the limit of the law), and Simmers are a passionate group of folks. I'm sure someone, somewhere would be happy to fight EA in court over such minutia if they brought the hammer down hard on the third-party creation community. (And I'm not even considering a great many creators  are located in jurisdictions where such concepts as "copyright law" are either  laughed at or flatly ignored.)
(2) Third-Party Content Creators provide a "relief valve" for the pent-up enthusiasm and desire for "new stuff / different stuff / stuff that makes the game behave differently."

I just think EA's really dropping the ball on the entire concept of "The Store."

If The Store worked (no comment on the robustness from me on this issue), and each item was priced about a tenth of what it is now (and yes, I know I'm talking 10 cents USD for a new end-table ), I suspect EA'd be making a mint.

They could even "sponsor" folks they've sold "creation tools" to (similar to how how Amazon.com provides links to other resellers and handles the billing and what-not on the back-end).

I suspect the micro-payment system will prove out by the time we're playing The Sims 4 or Sims: The Next Generation, and we'll see a "custom content" button working in-game, using 10-20 cent USD clicks to purchase and use custom content in real-time, with no silly trips off to a website and no headaches.

  -- Happytime

[samoht04]

I did use some CC in sims 2 but the trouble was getting it to download and appear in the game, and then you get the problem where none of it matches anything else and I just gave up towards the end. At least with store stuff it will show up.

[TollingBells]

It's really too bad EA won't change how it does buisness in the Store, and they can't do something about bad CC.

[Joria]

Not to offend you Joria, but I thought that talking about CC was absolutely forbidden to discuss on this forum. But now there is a topic associated to it I maybe find an exception here.

I don't offend easily, Leto but thank you for the courtesy.  My take on the no discussing CC was no talking about things like CC you use, where to find it, websites, who makes it and so on, not just discussing it in general.  For instance, someone might pose the question of why CC is bad, and I believe a question like that has been posed and answered by Pam who kindly explained this forum's take on it.  Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I've read your line: 'So, my question is, if these people can make these things AFTER EA puts out its games, why can't EA make them for us to begin with?'
But I didn't quite understand it. Do you mean why EA didn't make an expansion itself including what players have made as CC? If so, that is a good question.

I guess I wasn't very clear, and no, I did not mean make an expansion pack itself.  My thoughts were running along the lines of it IS possible to make some things more realistic or more fantastic, since modders do it all the time, therefor, why doesn't EA make things more realistic to begin with?  I was looking very, very closely at some of the flowers in the game.  They are so close to real, if you really zoom in on them, that they are picture perfect.  Each petal and leaf exactly right including highlights.  If that can be done with a simple thing like a flower, why not do it to start with, with hair, eyes, lips or the drape of clothing?  I do understand it is more difficult for hair but obviously it is possible to do.  Now, we already have hair sets at the store, but even though they are prettier, or more stylish, than the basic hair sets that come with the game, they still are flat looking and not all that attractive.  A set that was closer to what the modders make in their CC would sell quite readily at the store for those of us who refuse to use unofficial CC.

begin with?'

The other example with Medieval is that, in my opinion, EA is experiencing another gameplay for The Sims 3. They are curious about how players will enjoy the sims in a sort of Lord of the Rings style background. Therefore, this is a standalone game, and not a expansion like the others. In the future, they could consider to make an expansion out of it to. But before the time is there, they need to know how we gamers will react to a game like Medieval.
I hope this has somehow answered your question enough. And I really like to hear your opinion about the content of this post.

Actually, with Medieval, I believe, and no way to prove this, they are merely picking up on what was the most successful entire world and full sets of medieval stuff that was a huge modding for Sims2.  I downloaded all that content, and there were thousands of files to go with it, and played it quite joyfully.  I think EA picked up on that and have expanded the idea and made it much more playable.  We don't know exactly how that side game is going to run but it seems like they are combining elements from other rpg or strategy games and mixing them with Sims to make something that would be even more interesting and possibly a whole new genre if they do it right.  The mod was nice but very limiting, but Sims2 was much more limiting in many ways anyway.  I think what EA is doing with Medieval will be very interesting and I fully intend to explore it, hoping for the best.

My opinion?  Well thought out, Leto.  You've given me more to think about.

[Leto85]

@ Joria

Yes, you are right about that. There is a difference between linking to sites that contains CC than just asking about it in a opinion way. I simply overlooked that.

For your second text about the flower example (which is a good one), I believe EA made The Sims in a more cartoonish way because this would be more family friendly. If they made them real, with real skin etc, then the different deaths will look very real, too. And I know I have seen some horror movies in my life (although it is far from my personal tastes in video genres), watching a sim burning to ashes as real as possible is maybe the last thing I am waiting for to see in this game.
And although the sims look cartoonish, the environment they live in is indeed more realistic. Why exactly I don't know, but I do agree with any other person here that it looks better than when everything was cartoonish. That would be to... well, childish, maybe?

Same thoughts here about Medieval. No need to repeat what I've already said before I think.

[Happytime]

Hello Joria!

... with Medieval, I believe, and no way to prove this, they are merely picking up on what was the most successful entire world and full sets of medieval stuff that was a huge modding for Sims2.  I downloaded all that content, and there were thousands of files to go with it, and played it quite joyfully.

Well, Joria, I'd say the fact EA's shipping a game called The Sims: Medieval is a testament to what you've pointed out: their behavior as an organization kinda' "proves" your belief. Huge company or not, they've somehow managed to figure out many players of the Sims Franchise dig the Medieval scene.

EA "knows" each item (or set) folks download from The Store (technically ... I mean if it worked). I'd be a perfect "testing" platform for developing Sims content, and seeing how many folks are willing to purchase "specialized" content (people buy from the store = interest and potential for revenue).

Leto,

I think EA walks a delicate line in how they present the "Sims" to folks. Google up "Uncanny Divide" to see what I'm typing about.

"Cartoony / pudgy and silly looking" versus "realistic and a bit too scary."

I think EA hit a gold spot with the Sims2 (I try not to have my Sims watch too much Television in the Sims3, because I think the developers took a large step BACKWARDS in how pretty or handsome the Sims3 are compared to the Sims2), but that's me.

  -- Happytime