Author Topic: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?  (Read 3613 times)

Offline MarianT

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Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« on: November 25, 2019, 09:48:01 PM »
Earlier today, I watched a recent video that Carl did, called The Sims 4: What could fix it?, which can be accessed from the front page of the Guide or by following this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O41yW6qlOIM.

I was intrigued by much of what he suggested. I've been playing Sims 4 since it launched, and I also played The Sims, TS2, TS3, and The Sims Medieval. I tried Twallan's Story Progression mod briefly in TS3 but didn't like it, and I haven't used any mods in TS4.

I agree that there is a sameness to the Sims despite character traits. I've had Sims who hated children be good parents, and loner Sims want to meet new people. My noncommittal Sim has been in the same job, married to the same person, without any adverse effects, and so on. As a dynasty player, I like the fact that I can marry any Sim to any other Sim. As a storyteller, I hate the fact that Sims are so interchangeable.

My way of dealing with this is to play a modified ISBI (I'm Surrounded by Idiots), which is a version of the game in which you control only one Sim in the household, similar to the Asylum Challenge, and to play rotationally -- 10 different households in my current game. This gives me access to plenty of Sims who are pretty much free of my influence. One thing I like about this current version of the Sims is that it's safer to play an ISBI that in any other iteration. I've never lost a Sim to starvation, and I rarely have to deduct points for bladder failures and passing out. I did once have a teen Sim who was grieving over the death of her mother go 3 or 4 days without bathing, but this was before parenthood, when the Sim I was controlling wasn't able to influence her to take a shower.

I can say that active Sims will occasionally do push-ups on their own -- but they won't go jogging autonomously. Creative Sims will paint a picture -- but they won't start writing a book. Bookworms might autonomously browse through a book, but so will any other Sim. So yes, the criticisms are real. If you want to see Sims do things autonomously, you need to set up clubs, if you have Get Together, or use the influencing system from Parenthood, neither of which is real trait-directed autonomy.

I think that the developers have occasionally tried to fiddle with relationships. For a while, rotational play was dangerous because you didn't know what your married Sims would do when you rotated away from them. Complaints from us rotational players got them to change that just as complaints from "realistic" players reduced the frequency of alien abductions. I've come to accept one fact of simming: there are people who want their Sims to surprise them and people who hate it when their Sims surprise them.

Regarding Carl's video (which I think every simmer should watch), I took note of 4 different areas: traits, relationships, whims, and difficulty.

Traits -- I think traits are more powerful that people give them credit for. Not much more, but more. For example, I had to take a squeamish Sim out of the Doctor career because doing yucky stuff made her uncomfortable, and uncomfortable or tense Sims often gray out various activities. She was still able to give shots, however. I don't know what developers could do with traits that wouldn't annoy people who have gotten used to the present state of affairs. I liked the way traits were dealt with in TS1 and 2, but I don't think they could go back to that, and the developers were right -- people tended to keep their Sims in the middle areas of neat/slob, playful/serious, nice/mean, active/lazy, and the 5th that I can't remember.

Relationships -- Currently I have 2 Sims with the outgoing trait, who are happily married to each other and spend much of the day together because they're both in the Entertainer career. Their Social needs are always low because outgoing Sims need more social interaction. If I were controlling them, they would get more interaction, but because I'm doing an ISBI, they never talk to each other. As I said above, though, I think the developers dialed down the likelihood that 2 Sims would talk to each other, and reduced romantic interactions to 0 because of complaints about unwanted relationships. While writing this, I've realized that I could use the club system to increase some interactions.

Whims -- This is where I can see ways to improve the system. Indeed, some of them might have been implemented but players just don't know about it. For example, it's annoying that my Sims often get the whim to Research Vampires on the Computer. But I think that once I've xed it out, I don't get it again. It might be possible to introduce a "never again" X to the Whim system along with the regular x and the lock. Sometimes I x out a whim because I don't want to do it just then. I've noticed that when I lock a whim -- the whim to make $1000, for example, I will get repeats of that whim, especially if my Sim is working on the Fabulously Wealthy aspiration, which it's related to. I know that developers have tinkered with Whims. For a while my married Sims would often get whims to get engaged and get married -- which would be annoying, especially when there had just been a wedding. For a while they would also get the whim to make pancakes, for example, right after making pancakes, which was also annoying. While I would like to see more whims related to various packs, I have to admit that could get tedious, especially for players who have lots of packs. I think players would have to be made aware that new Sims would be bombarded with whims to research Vampires, watch the Civic Access channel, buy a beebox, etc. I also think an overhaul of rewards is in order. I can get 50 pts for buying a pet ball? Okay, I'll take it.

Difficulty -- I'll keep this brief. Anyone who wants more difficulty in their game is welcome to try any of our challenges or dynasties on this forum.

In closing, I want to thank @Carl for a very thought-provoking piece and also to thank @Playalot for her input on it. And I would encourage anyone with an interest in game design to watch it.



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Offline Rainbow Dash

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2019, 05:32:00 AM »
I watched this video quite a while ago and I have to agree with most of what Carl said, especially about the traits, too many of those just give an emotional moodlet and don't do much else. There are a few interesting traits that are fun to play with and actually impact gameplay, such as the Jealous trait, but not enough of them in my opinion. The problem here, I think, is that Sims all to often act according to whatever emotion they are feeling at the time and not like their traits, rendering the latter rather useless.

One of the biggest issues I have with the Sims 4 is that everything is too heavily watered down from what it used to be in the previous Sims games. Sure, the game has a Mature rating but it feels very PG rated as everything even remotely adult themed or risque has been removed. Sims can no longer get juiced, dance on counter tops or experiment with herbs, even romance socials got toned down, I think if they brought some of those interactions back it would make the game a little more fun, let my Sims live a little. I understand that EA are trying a more family friendly approach with the Sims 4 but there are ways to do this and still make the game appealing to adults.

But what I really miss is the little ways Sims would interact with each, playing catch, tag, paper rock scissors, cuddling in bed, ever noticed how kids don't actually play with each other any more? It's the small things that matter, we need more meaningful interactions like this instead of annoying autonomous actions such as Grab Water.

Perhaps my biggest peeve is that nothing bad happens to our Sims and there's a definite lack of random events such as Burglers, Mid Life Crisis, if they were to bring these back, I feel it would really breath life back into the game. I remain hopeful however, because Realm Of Magic did bring consequences for failing spells or potions, such as knocking out your Sims or cursing them and I love that, we need more of this kind of gameplay. 

I totally agree with the lack of difficulty in the game, but this is why I do challenges, not just Tournament Challenges either, I do a few on the internet too. While I'm not keen for some parts Discover University (I'm getting the pack later this week), such as the lack of experimentation, I am looking forward to the time management and workload it will place on my Sim, I'm also eager to experience Robotics too, that's meant to be quite challenging, something we need more of.

In short the video makes a lot of good points and EA needs to take notes, lol, this post is just my opinion and what I feel needs improving. I realize I may have sounded a little negative here and I tried not to but I really do love the Sims 4, it just a little more love, that's all. I do think it's on the right track for improvement and that's a good thing. :)



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Offline craterdweller

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2019, 06:52:50 AM »
I just watched Carl's video and it answered a lot of doubts/questions I've been having. A little background, I've played the Sims since the first game released way back when ... I've played on a Mac since the Sims 2, so my observations may differ from those playing on a PC or console.

I remember waiting a year after the PC release to play. If memory serves, I think they released the Sims 4 for Mac and Get To Work at roughly the same time. There were bugs and issues, and aspects of the game quickly abandoned (the buggy achievement system that reset the legacy counter every time you changed lots) but it was the Sims and it ran okay on my Mac and I no longer had to wait for a 3rd party to port patches/expansions. I loved the theme-based challenges like the growfruit challenge that would pop up occasionally. I almost always play rotationally and there were/are issues with rotational play. Some of them have been addressed, others remain, but I fully support finding a balance so all play styles can be enjoyed.

I drifted away from the Sims4 as I got sucked back into an MMO. Upon my return a few months ago, there were times I thought I had lost my mind. I sought out answers for things that didn't mesh with my recollection and wound up here at Carl's guide.  For example, one of the annoyances of rotational play from the first time was the random love interests that would crop up in my households while I was off playing another. It wouldn't have been so bad except as always, EA/Maxis overdid it. Each sim would have 3 or 4 romantic interests, no matter what their traits or relationship ties. When I returned, I was happy to find they had added a "let's be friends" interaction that would wipe the romance slider without making an enemy of the former love interest. I thought this was a good compromise, although I also noticed they had turned down or off the random romances. The EA/Maxis challenges were gone (guess they were too expensive) and I didn't remember turning off whims, but I found that in the options, and re-enabled. I noticed pinned whims were not resolving, and even unpinned ones, and found a bunch of open support tickets. Now having watched Carl's video, it appears they decided to just disable the whims rather than fix the issues. I found myself nodding when he discussed their repetitive nature (just how many pools can one sim own) but still hold out hope they will overhaul it to something better. I also noticed some of the aspirations had changed. At first, I thought it was faulty memory, but it makes more sense after watching the video.

CAS stories - Carl touched on this a little, but one of my biggest disappointments with story mode is it gone once you leave CAS. It would be nice if they allowed a small "bio" section that was partly filled from the results of the CAS story that would persist with your Sim. As it stands, and I may be mistaken and just not looking in the right place, you never get to see a record of what you started once you leave CAS. Also, if you move your sim to a library so you can build them home, they still have the starting skills but not the initial career that was suggested. Seems like they could/should have gone a bit further with this ...

Cats and Dogs - As an avid animal lover I looked forward to this expansion, however, I have quickly become disillusioned. I rolled up a sim that was an animal lover- adopted a couple of strays and curious about the genetics- bred them, only to find I could not give/sell the puppies to another sim. My only option was the dog pound lady :( So I used Manage Households to move the dogs into other families. Not great, but something I could work with -- except the dog behavior has driven me, a dog lover, crazy. They relieve themselves right outside the front door, not to the side, not in the grass but directly in front of the door and there is no way to train them to use a specific spot. So I locked the front door and made a "yard" outback with a door the dogs could use. Mostly they then did their business directly outside the backdoor, but occasionally the pathing would be screwed up and their poop wound up inside the house, despite the dog clearly being outside. There are no toys activities to keep them occupied for more than 2 minutes and they whine for a walk constantly. When they return from a seven-hour walk or however long it takes, amazingly they get the red fire hydrant over their head and they are whining ... Seriously dog, you didn't take care of business in all that time? Directing the walk seems problematic. Either the dog doesn't respond or my sim takes him off his leash and leaves the dog - not something most dog lovers would do ... I see open tickets at EA Answers but there doesn't seem to be much interest by EA/maxis in resolving which leads me to my final point ...

The unfortunate trend with game developers is to keep adding new. They are on a rollercoaster of release schedules with never enough time or resources to test. Give the players something they've been asking for, and hope they'll forget about all the issues. It's not just EA/Maxis, it has become the industry standard. Gone are the days of QA teams and meaningful beta tests. Now, beta tests are merely a means to get players hyped for their new game/pack/expansion. Tickets with bugs/issues on older packs are ignored and quietly closed without resolution. It wouldn't even be so bad if the newest expansion/pack weren't so riddled with bugs that should have been caught in testing. Do they even test before releasing anymore or are we consumers being riddled with the developers "first draft"? Take Discover University for example -- townies/NPCs moved in that have attended uni are stuck in limbo. They show they have completed all the courses, have a grade and supposedly a degree, but do not get the benefit of that degree when applying for a job. Their tab with coursework doesn't clear from their jobs tab either. The open ticket from EA Answer HQ points back to Carl's university guide - (the section on cheats) and recommends installing the mods necessary to use those cheats to fix as a workaround - Uh, okay - nothing against mods, I've used them in previous versions of the Sims, but this was not an easy fix and temporarily left my save in a broken state (which unsurprisingly I was able to fix with yet another mod).

Although I share Carl's hope that EA will take note and work on improving the framework they've built, the pragmatist in me sees the cycle of releasing untested/unfinished new content over improving the game. I see the same in the MMO I am playing. What does it mean for me? Well, there's still much of the game I want to explore but I'm considering @oshizu method of using different Sims folders (with or without mods) to separate my games. This way I can still challenge myself with the awesome challenges of the Challenge Team while exploring the Meaningful stories mod on my regular game. I think this mod is supposed to make the emotions more realistic like Carl was suggesting in the video.

Sorry - didn't mean to make this so long ...

Offline scoed

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 02:45:02 PM »
I have been playing Sim games since The Sims 1. I enjoyed each of them. But in my opinion 4 is in many ways a step down from 3 and in some areas even 2. Traits is deffenatly one of them. I seen a video were they set 3 identical box rooms with items that should appeal to some traits more than others and could meet all there needs in each. Them placed 3 sims, one in each with each having a unique set of traits. They were put on full autonomy and left to their own devices as their behavior was recorded. There was very little to no difference in the sims behavior. Honestly traits in this game mostly don't matter. This is a huge step down. Sims feel the same because well they are. I agree with Carl here.

As for relationships, well I feel the current system is fine. I do wish there was more age defined interactions though. Like kids should gravitate towards kids. Kids should be able to play tag and the like and be preferred over talking to a random adult. At this time this is not in the game and it is sorely needed. Also I agree with Carl established relationship should matter more. Married sims should flirt less with those they aren't married to. But other than lacking age defined interactions and preferences I don't have a huge issue with sims 4 relationships.

The whim system is broken and largely irrelevant. It needs to be completely overhauled. It is buggy and of minimal impact. And the new aspirations coming in the game are auto completable if you use the content. Given every sims can do every aspiration whims and aspirations don't add to the uniqueness of sims. And since schooling (elementary, high school, and uni) part time jobs, and careers with a few exceptions also play so similarly play so similarly as to make the sameness even worse. Money is so easy sims don't even need a money making skill or a job to make it, so that isn't a factor ether in how sims play. the sameness equals shallowness to me.

Difficulty is an issue to me. I don't do the challenges as play to relax and well I can be hyper competitive. Being competitive is not relaxing. Besides like Realm of Magic I mastered in three hours. So that is the very definition of easy. But the ease isn't the real issue in my mind. There is no randomness that made the other games great and varied. Yes thing like burglars got annoying but they also brought variance. All the The Sims titles are easy. But in all but this one there was a quirky randomness to thing that livened play and made you react. Also in earlier versions there were real consequences. Take a sim in any of the first three game and leave them running unattended for 24 hours and odd something really bad would happen. In the The Sims 4 I have done this and well all that happened as the lights were off. I could fix everything in minutes. Little to no randomness, all sims feeling and behaving the same, no challenge, and no consequences makes the game feel shallow.

Sims should feel and play differently based on traits, age, career and goals. They don't. Until that happens this game will feel shallow when compared to earlier versions. Randomness adds to play experience and earlier versions had it, but this one not so much. Until they add it this game will feel shallow compared to earlier versions. Consequences of bad play should matter but they don't. That makes the game feel shallow. A game pack should have more than 3 hours of play. That make any game shallow.

Don't get me wrong there is much that is right with The Sims 4. I love the game. But in some areas I feel it is worse then earlier versions.


Offline MarianT

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2019, 05:18:54 PM »
Having complained about relationships in my earlier post, I'm happy to say that my married Sims are talking to each other again after the latest update. In fact, one of them serenaded his wife.

I think one big problem is that traits, skills, and careers all feed into the conversation menu. I haven't counted how many topics my Sims have available to them, but I know it's a lot. And sadly, except for the character trait Responsibility, it seems like the character traits are expressed mainly in conversation, too. I think the theory is that your bookworm Sim can build a relationship with another bookworm Sim by talking about books, your art-loving Sims by talking about art, and so on. But I'm sure that many players do the same thing I do -- build up charisma a little and then keep using "Brighten Day" and "Heartfelt Compliment." And with Get Famous, if your Sim has a Great or even Good reputation, friendship comes more easily still. We don't really need more traits; we just need traits that show up outside of conversation.

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Offline OlManSimmer

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 07:21:58 AM »
I haven't used any mods in TS4.
Perhaps that is the problem. I allready thought when i saw carl's Video "What about Mods?"

A Player of Sims 4 can be between 13 and 99 - have a High End Gaming Computer or Daddys 10 year old Laptop with 32bit OS and 2GB RAM.
One loves to build one loves storytelling, one loves to play this, one loves to play that....

Meaningful Stories by roBurky
Have Some Personality Please! by Polarbear Sims
Slice of Life by Kawaiistacie
Improved relationships by Zero
combined with the setting of Personalities by Turbodriver (you can play WW 100% vanilla) and MCCC you can tune your sims to much more indiviual persons.

Same with the difficulty of the game:
Everyone can tune this. There are Mods for everything. If anthing enoyes you... turn it of. If anything is to simple, make it more difficult.

EA/Maxis can't do this. They have to make it right for everyone.


   


Offline Playalot

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 06:19:47 PM »
I would say that people should be able to enjoy a complex in-depth game experience first without having to add mods. The fact that many can't with this iteration speaks to a gaming-want that many long time simmers feel TS4 hasn't met. Designs change over the years and so they should, but TS4 hasn't met a large portion of simmers needs from the pool of people who have played older iterations. This is neither a good nor a bad thing, it simply is due to TS4 being a very different game to TS3 for example and again to TS2.  It also hasn't felt rich enough for many new players for who TS4 is their first dive into the world of The Sims. So I would hesitate to say to any player that the issue or the problem is that 'they haven't tried any mods'.

That having been said, I have played with mods now for many years as new content can only hold my attention for maybe 2-3 days at the very most. Whereas my modded game has managed to hold my attention as a constant now for years. The use of mods to add game play is only something I started to do when I began to play TS4 as I guess older iterations had enough depth to keep me playing vanilla.
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Offline ratchie

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Re: Carl's Video: The Sims 4: What could fix it?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 12:05:40 AM »
perhaps an unpopular opinion but I would like to see something new that isn't a repetition of previous Sims games.  We get the same thing with every new addition to the franchise pets seasons university aliens. It's the same thing different pixels every time.
I was really excited with the idea that we could potentially play as Grimm but that was not to be.
I want more traits more interaction I want other Sims that I do not control to live their lives. I loved the subtlety of Sims 3 story progression when a Goth would show up in the 4th generation of my dynasty or the time Claire Ursine had a baby with Connor Frio. I want to care about the townies and their stories I was writing a list for the vampire challenge and had no clue who Gavin Richards was. He is an original townie I should know him as well as I know the goths or Agnes Crumplebottom.
Sims 4 lacks depth I know that I can pick any Sim and make them fit to my story regardless of what traits the game tells me they have. 
So after waffling I think the Sims 4 needs new traits that actually effect gameplay. Realistic story progression. Back stories and lore that relate to previous Sims games. Don lothario has a great story but in the Sims 4 it's like hey you guys recognise don lothario well here he we included him cause nostalgia. But forget everything you ever knew about Don cause erm its an alternative timeline yeah that's right alternative timeline that excuses every plot hole.

Evidently somethings really irritate me.

Rachel
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