Whither The Sims?

[TheGoat]

I downloaded The Sims 4 the first night it was available, and I've had a pretty positive experience so far, but, like many, it hasn't been quite as positive as I'd hoped. The game is well put together, but has always felt a little shallow. I didn't realize just how strongly I felt this way, however, until I recently re-installed The Sims 3 and the first two expansion packs, and started playing them again. Even with most of my content still uninstalled (Ambitions is downloading as I type), I'm struck by the richness and depth of the game, which easily reached levels far beyond what The Sims 4 has yet been able to achieve.

Now, sightly missing the mark when following up such a brilliant game as The Sims 3 isn't really something to be surprised by, and it doesn't suggest there is anything wrong with The Sims 4. That was a high bar they were shooting for. But there's another aspect to this: money. I probably spent close to $1000 on The Sims 3 over five years, and thanks to smart timing, my total bill for The Sims 4 is probably about a tenth of that, and I really doubt at this time that I'll spend another red cent. The Sims 3 was designed to squeeze money out of us like juice from a grapefruit, but it was fine, because the sheer volume (and quality) of content made the money spent worth it. That's just not the case now.

So, anyway, in that context, I began thinking about The Sims 5. Of course, there are two competing rumors out there. One is that the response of fans to the current iteration is putting any future offering in doubt. The other is just the opposite: that The Sims 4 is likely thin because resources at EA are being pushed into The Sims 5 in order to speed up its production, and move up its release date, perhaps as early as next year. Of course, both of those rumors are probably just reckless speculation (in fact, EA refuses to confirm they've even begun development on This Sims 5, as far as I can tell), but the fact that people are even talking about it is, I think, instructive.

So my question for discussion: how do you think, after two years, The Sims 4 stacks up to The Sims 3 (or even The Sims 2, which I still think was the best of the bunch)? And, if you find The Sims 4 lacking at all, would you prefer EA double down on trying to fix it, or would you prefer they put as much effort as possible into making The Sims 5 as good as possible, and perhaps even speed up its development?

NB: I'm not a mod here, but due to the delicate nature of my questions, I think it would be appropriate to remind anyone who reads this that EA-bashing is frowned upon here. I'm hoping to start an objective discussion among devoted fans of The Sims franchise about the best path forward, not to start a complaint-fest.

[MrsFlynn]

Just to note, we don't allow rumors or speculation about the game. As we do not like to share rumors or speculations about unconfirmed Sims content. We like to wait until we have official word from EA. Please do not share rumors about Sims 5. As they aren't based on anything official.

[TheGoat]

Just to note, we don't allow rumors or speculation about the game. As we do not like to share rumors or speculations about unconfirmed Sims content. We like to wait until we have official word from EA. Please do not share rumors about Sims 5. As they aren't based on anything official.

Yes, thank you. I hope I wasn't unclear. It's not my intention to ask anyone to speculate about anything. There's already enough of that out there (and we all know how to find it), and like I referenced in my OP, no reason to think any of it is true. I'm more interested in what people want. How they feel about the latest iteration of the franchise, and where they'd like to see it go.

[Playalot]

..snip

So my question for discussion: how do you think, after two years, The Sims 4 stacks up to The Sims 3 (or even The Sims 2, which I still think was the best of the bunch)? ...snip

My honest reaction is simply no. For me The Sims 4 doesn't compare to the depth of game play that The Sims 3 has but it isn't just about content for me. It is about the deeper game play that I enjoyed in the Sims 3 and not having that same gaming experience in The Sims 4.

As an example I will use nectar making: In TS3 it was detailed and took quite a bit of work to start making quality nectar including traveling, gardening etc in TS4 you simply can buy a glass or nectar in a restaurant.

Another example is collecting. In TS3 I enjoyed spending hours collecting crystals and then cutting to complete the entire collection. In TS4 you can collect and display or use for an energized aura.

Thing is, the gaming experience is subjective and personal. For example one thing I think TS4 has got right is now my sim can sing and play his guitar. This feature is gorgeous. It isn't deep game play but I love it all the same. I also enjoy taking my sims camping now that we have a city expansion. The change in environment makes more sense now and adds to my enjoyment.

I will not comment on any future content or games as this is not the forum for that. 

I also returned to playing TS3 after about a year of exclusively playing TS4. I enjoy TS4 a lot better now that I am also playing TS3.

[Nindigo]

Hey. I feel TS4 builds around a lot of different things than TS3 and thus must be viewed in a different light. Graphically, I notice it's leaning more towards a cartoonish feel, there is a lot of focus on animation, lighting, depth-of-field, and it's really fleshing out every thing a sim does. In comparison, TS3 has a more graphically limited and sandboxy feel, and sims can only do one thing at a time, but more content could be put into it because of its simpler structure. Basically, it's two very different games, and personally I had to look at TS4 with fresh eyes and an open mind. Only then could I enjoy it - when I stopped comparing it to TS3

I think TS3 is still awesome, but nowhere nearly as stable a game. Also, I grow more attached to my sims in TS4 because their AI is more detailed

[coolsim9999999]

I've only played TS4, but I've seen clips of all of the older games, and I can understand why people miss the features in them.  However, I really think that I am more attached to my Sims in TS4 because of all of the interactions and emotions.  From clips, however, I definitely see why the other Sims games were great, too!

[MarianT]

I think that each iteration has had its strengths. TS3 was definitely the best in terms of world-building, TS2 in terms of the Sims. What I liked about TS2 Sims was that they were less malleable than TS3 or 4, but as a challenge player, I definitely like the ease with which I can make a TS4 Sim do anything.

What I like in TS4 is that my Sims do seem to make choices -- in clothing, in music, and in the movies/TV they watch (I'm so glad they're not all tuning into the Tween channel anymore). I would like to see Sims that are not under my control have more of a range of conversational options that they pick, but there are people who would hate that. I would like to see interests come back and even hobbies, either randomly generated or available for choice.

I'm beginning to worry that the game engine is just not capable of doing much, of handling things like different heights, for example, or putting in new animations. That said, there is much that can be done within the game -- painting is great, and I love the music my Sims play once they become skilled enough. I haven't done much with basketball yet, but it worries me that our Sims can't play catch together, something they've done since the beginning.

[TheGoat]

As an example I will use nectar making: In TS3 it was detailed and took quite a bit of work to start making quality nectar including traveling, gardening etc in TS4 you simply can buy a glass or nectar in a restaurant.

It's funny you chose that example. Nectar-making was one of my favorite parts of the game. I started many new games simply for the purpose of turning a sim into the best nectar-maker possible. That's exactly the kind of depth I loved in TS3 that we haven't seen yet in TS4.

[Whirligig]

I really didn't play TS3 all that much. It just never really appealed to me. I didn't never play it, but I didn't get as into it as I did into TS2 and now into TS4. I think part of the reason was I never had a computer that could handle it properly, so it was always slow, but there were other aspects of the gameplay that just never clicked for me.

Coming from TS2, TS4 has been, I think, the sequel I wanted. Sure, I miss all the customization options we had in previous games. We used to be able to build our own neighbourhoods and worlds and we had so much more control over which sims existed in our neighbourhoods, and what they did. And I guess, when everyone else is talking about 'depth', maybe that's what I never got into in TS3.

I'm not a gamer - not really. It's awkward when people ask what I do in my spare time and I say 'mostly play computer games' but then have to explain that I'm absolutely miserable at most of them. My boyfriend tries to get me to play first person shooters or skyrim or even mariokart and as soon as it involves hand-eye coordination, I'm out. And maybe it's simply a matter of TS3 was just too hard for me. Too hard to build skills, to collect resources, to complete goals while still having fun letting the sims be themselves.

Sims 4 is brighter and more visually appealing to me. I really don't miss CAST at all. And yeah, also easier in many ways. To some, that may mean it's not as 'deep' as TS3, but I guess the simpler game is the one I'm personally enjoying.

One area where Sims 4 does fail me miserably is it's complete and utter lack of content/motivation for family style play. There was an outcry when it was released about pools and toddlers. Well, we got pools. We got more jobs for the career simmers (GTW), we got more social events for the "make sims socialise constantly" players (Get Together and somewhat in City Living). But apart from the kids room stuff pack, the game has been sorely lacking additional content for family-oriented players. And I, like many people, am starting to wonder if it will ever happen.

[Nindigo]

@Whirligig I, too, feel the family aspect has been overlooked or discarded some in TS4. Maybe it's trying to immitate young people's real life as it often is nowadays - careers, self. I suppose it's their main target group of players like many other games. Personally, I was baffled that babies are now just screaming furniture (new family members are just a bother apparently) and jump out of their bassinets as school kids I had lots of fun with toddlers in TS3 (also many frustrations though).

If there is to be a TS5 then I hope they bring back more attention and content to families. Or maybe just release a family-expansion pack for TS4.